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Playing around with some different ideas for DE. Wondered what thoughts on this one might be:

Lelith
Dracite with Agonizer, Pistol, Drugs, Plasma Grenades

4 wyches, succubus with agonizer and plasma grenades
raider

4 wyches, succubus with agonizer and plasma grenades
raider

4 wyches, succubus with agonizer and plasma grenades
raider

5 DE warriors with DL, 1 sybarite with nightmare doll
Raider

8 DE warriors with DL
raider

8 DE warriors with DL
raider

Beastmaster, 3 warp beasts
Beastmaster, 3 warp beasts
Beastmaster, 3 warp beasts

ravager with 3 DLs
ravager with 3 DLs
ravager with 3 DLs

General gameplan: I'd like to avoid webway portals for the moment, as they raise all kinds of issues (see YMTC for details ) and just don't appeal to me. Unfortunately, if units want to get into melee, they'll need some kind of way to travel the board safely to do it.

This starts with the nightmare doll. With all the skimmers and such, I'll need terrain to hide them, so the nightmare doll doubles my chance of getting to pick sides. May also allow me to set up with an already covered and concealed approach to the enemy.

If terrain is lacking, i can sacrifice a few empty warrior raiders to boost forward and form a wall (or multiple walls). As long as they move, they'll crash if hit and allow me to rush the wych raiders (with HQs bumming rides) forward on the following turn. The warp beasts would advance then, too.

If the enemy is more assault based, we just dart around shooting as they draw in, then hit them. Wyches in raiders, warp beasts and a drugged arcite should have great charge range, so I should be able to set assaults up favorably. With 8 agonizers in the list, I should be able to hurt just about anything if it gets close.

I played around trying to get more lances in, but it wasn't working too well. I could reduce the warrior squads to give the wyches blasters, perhaps, but that would make them awfully fragile.

12 scoring units, but all are pretty fragile. It seems like it could work well against some lists, but might struggle against some others. Thoughts?

Anyone who knows how to play against DE will target your raiders carrying wyches and ignore the closer ones with long range fire.

Conversely, the ones that are closer are vulnerable to short range fire (like bolters).

Your CC squads are too thin. They'll die to any countercharge. Even IG or Tau will beat you down.
Ok maybe not Tau, but still.

Are the Wych Succubus the only ones with plasma grenades? That trick doesn't work, ya know. If the whole squad has 'em, nevermind. Hard to tell from your list.

Lelith should always have a retinue for the guaranteed 12" assault move.

I don't see nightshields...and if you aren't using the WWP, you should have some.

Ravagers should always be 1xDL and 2xDis or 3xDis.

Hope that helps some.

Hmm. Interesting food for thought. I know the squads are small and fragile, but I still have a large number of bodies, they're just in multiple, small units instead of a few large ones.

As for the raiders and targetting, you're correct in the target priority order. Ideally, though, things like the wych raiders and ravagers would stay back, either at long range or behind cover, while the empty raiders shoot forward. Whether they die to bolters or lascannons makes no matter. They'll also force target priority checks, so may save the raiders that way, too.

Nightshields are tempting, but so expensive. I've used similar rules in the past (old Tau disruption pod) and it was handy, but 20 points adds up quickly, especially for a 36" weapon.

I see the disintegrators being much more attractive in 5th edition, as they'll almost always his something with the new blast rules, but as they are now, I'm hesitant. Without the ravagers, I only have 9 dark lances, so the extra power of 9 more is handy, especially with nidzilla running around. Might give it a shot though.

The succubus are the only ones with grenades. I know there are debates about the point, but we play it as letting the succubus strike at INI and the rest of the squad strikes last. Works for me most of the time, as the succubus does the majority of the work.

I had overlooked the special combat drugs ability for Lelith. That does make things handy in some ways. Of course, moving a wych squad to her loses the succubus (and agonizer), which loses a warp beast pack.

So your attackers strike at I10 and go first, then your succubus swings, then everyone else goes...you know that, right? Your unit leader isn't an IC, so you don't get to go first since they are attacking your unit.

Disintigrators can get two MC if you partially cover anothers base and roll the 4+.

The best use of disintigrators on ravagers are the 9 S4 AP3 shots. It really hurts.

Stelek wrote:The best use of disintigrators on ravagers are the 9 S4 AP3 shots. It really hurts.

That's the trick. That allows the skimmer to move fast to get some protection from the glancing rules while using all of its guns, but it's got to get fairly close to do so. That's an average of 3 marines, which isn't bad, but it's not good to be 24" away with marines left. I envisioned the ravagers staying back, moving slowly to fire all guns but slowly peaking around cover to minimize return fire. Or something.

Grimaldi wrote:Playing around with some different ideas for DE. Wondered what thoughts on this one might be:

Lelith
Dracite with Agonizer, Pistol, Drugs, Plasma Grenades

4 wyches, succubus with agonizer and plasma grenades
raider

4 wyches, succubus with agonizer and plasma grenades
raider

4 wyches, succubus with agonizer and plasma grenades
raider

5 DE warriors with DL, 1 sybarite with nightmare doll
Raider

8 DE warriors with DL
raider

8 DE warriors with DL
raider

Beastmaster, 3 warp beasts
Beastmaster, 3 warp beasts
Beastmaster, 3 warp beasts

ravager with 3 DLs
ravager with 3 DLs
ravager with 3 DLs

General gameplan: I'd like to avoid webway portals for the moment, as they raise all kinds of issues (see YMTC for details ) and just don't appeal to me. Unfortunately, if units want to get into melee, they'll need some kind of way to travel the board safely to do it.

This starts with the nightmare doll. With all the skimmers and such, I'll need terrain to hide them, so the nightmare doll doubles my chance of getting to pick sides. May also allow me to set up with an already covered and concealed approach to the enemy.

If terrain is lacking, i can sacrifice a few empty warrior raiders to boost forward and form a wall (or multiple walls). As long as they move, they'll crash if hit and allow me to rush the wych raiders (with HQs bumming rides) forward on the following turn. The warp beasts would advance then, too.

If the enemy is more assault based, we just dart around shooting as they draw in, then hit them. Wyches in raiders, warp beasts and a drugged arcite should have great charge range, so I should be able to set assaults up favorably. With 8 agonizers in the list, I should be able to hurt just about anything if it gets close.

I played around trying to get more lances in, but it wasn't working too well. I could reduce the warrior squads to give the wyches blasters, perhaps, but that would make them awfully fragile.

12 scoring units, but all are pretty fragile. It seems like it could work well against some lists, but might struggle against some others. Thoughts?

Dude drop the Ravagers, there high point and easy to destroy, spend the new points on full squads of wyches, 5 wyches are canny useless in combat.

Also you wanna equip your raiders with night shield, it adds 6", so most of the time itl be stopping pesky bolter fire, or atleast stopping them rapid firing at the raider.

Hellions are lethal if you give the succubus Goblet of spite, makes them almost as good as wyches with wych weapons. which leads me to my next point, wych weapons, 1 point each please sir...

Also if you wanna boost Dark lances take a 10 man warrior squad with 2. Or even better a 5 man raider squad with dark lance with raider. This basically would be a throwaway squad, stick it infront of leliths raider and in the new 5th edition rules your opponent will either have to shoot the warrior raider, wasting shots that could be taking down lelith, or you'll get the new 4+ vehicle hull down style armour save.

Ever consider mandrakes? new rules are quality cover saves so your mandrakes will be getting the 4+ standard plus there 5+ shadow skin, which I'm pretty sure on, but correct me if im wrong, gives them a 2+ save if ther behind absolutely anything. Just a thought.

The new deep strike being aloud in every mission means that scourges may now be worth taking even though they are ludicriously expensive and soft. They make an amazing deiversion for your wyches if you were to strike them behind the enemies tanks/troops with there dark lances/ splinter cannons.