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Had a discussion last night about whether the warboss gains FNP if he is joined with a unit of nobs which includes a painboy. I'm arguing that he does:

1) When an IC joins a unit, he is a part of that unit with the exception of allocation of attacks in hth and for purposes of scoring

2) The painboy "confers the FNP ability to his unit."

Therefore, the warboss gains the FNP ability when joined to a unit of nobs.

The counter arguement was that even though he was joined to the unit, he was not part of the painboy's unit. (which didn't make sense to me)

Yes, of course he gets it. He's part of the unit, therefore he gets FNP.

What do your gaming buddies make off Grotsnik? He can only ever join a unit in the same way that your Warboss does--does that mean he can't FNP them?

I don't know - I was mildly astonished when he told me that he didn't agree with the FNP for the WB. Heck, he's an old IW player - maybe that's his problem...

I doubt he'd say anything about Grotsnik since it's written in his rules that he confers it on any unit he's joined with.

That's true for "One Scalpel Short," but not for FNP. He just as plain old dok's tools.

ah, I see your point. If you follow the convulted "logic" that an IC isn't part of the unit, then Grotsnik's dok's tools wouldn't work either.

I'll have to mention that to him.

The Warboss, being an IC, is a separate unit when in CC. So it doesn't get FNP when involved in an Assault. But I would definately allow it to use FNP during the other phases of the turn.

Unfortunately democratus he is still a part of the unit.
By that logic he would be able to leave close combat if he is unable to consolidate into BTB after a combat is resolved.
If you take a look at the BGB you will note that once the close combat has begun the IC can not leave the unit.

Yes, he gets FNP as he is a part of the unit and the Painboy confers FNP to the unit.

Same thing with an autarch or IC joining a harlequin unit with a shadowseer, he confers Veil of Tears to the unit.

The IC is not part of the unit during CC (p.51). He is unable to leave the unit because the rules add the stipulation that he is considered locked if the unit he had joined is also locked. That stiplulation was needed because he would, indeed, otherwise be able to leave.

It doesn't - however - override the rule that he is a separate unit while in CC.

I do not have my BGB with me so I will have to double check it later. If I'm understanding you correctly:
IC joins a squad
This unit charges an enemy
The IC leaves the unit or is no longer considered part of the unit
The IC and the squad lose hand to hand
Must take two separate checks on 2 different leaderships
and both run the risk of falling back different distances

Is that what you are saying?

however, if your WB and nobs lose the combat, you only make one morale roll - so they are still one unit. Just not for hitting and wounding.

Characters are treated as a separate unit when resolving close combats, following the normal rules for multiple combats.

So they are only a separate unit for resolving who is engaged with whom and wounds. Not for anything else.

Otherwise you are breaking the core rule that a character may only leave a unit during the movement phase. A character cannot leave a unit during the assualt phase. Which means he is still a part of the unit - just not for engagement status or wounding.

paidinfull wrote:I do not have my BGB with me so I will have to double check it later. If I'm understanding you correctly:
IC joins a squad
This unit charges an enemy
The IC leaves the unit or is no longer considered part of the unit
The IC and the squad lose hand to hand
Must take two separate checks on 2 different leaderships
and both run the risk of falling back different distances

Is that what you are saying?

and it would also follow that they make seperate sweeping advance rolls.

I do not have my rule book handy, unfortunately. Does it actually say the IC is a seperate unit, or does it say it is targetted seperately?

as for the OP. I would say yes. So long as the IC is tied to the unit, and is stuck falling back with the unit (and cannot regroup) I would say he gets FNP. It does not say anything about "the unit has the USR FNP and follows rules in the BGB." It says, "gives the unit FNP", and the HQ is part of the unit.

budro
when did you sneak that post in there?

B)

at the same time you were writing.

Tacobake: I quoted the rule. The IC is only a separate unit for resolving combat. He does not become a separate unit for the entire assualt phase.

I do not see how that could mean he doesn't get the FNP rule during assualt. does that also mean that any unit with Grotsnik doesn't get FNP during assualt? I don't think so.

Right on
It's how I've played it and will continue playing it.
I voted Yes and stand by it.

Thanks for the quote, definitely cleared that up

budro wrote:at the same time you were writing.

Tacobake: I quoted the rule. The IC is only a separate unit for resolving combat. He does not become a separate unit for the entire assualt phase.

cool. We posted simultaneously. I am just a slow typer .

This is covered in the rulebook FAQ under Assaults.

An IC is only treated separate when actually resolving attacks.

I woould say yes. If he joined it, then he is in it.