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hq
1 chaplain with powerfist, jump 145

elites:
7 Death Company, with jump (2 paid for) 95

5 vet assault, in a pod, combi-plas x 3, melta x2 200

1 furioso, podded, heavy flamer 155

Troops:
10 Tac marines, rhino, pw, lascannon, melta 275

10 tac marines, rhino with extra armor, power fist, lascannon melta gun 300

5 assault marines, pf, pp x2 195

5 assault marines, pf, pp x2 195

Fast Attack:
1 attack bike with mm 50

1 attack bike with mm 50

1 attack bike with mm 50

HS
Baal Predator, extra armor, hb sponsons 140

1850 on the nose.

Your thoughts?

If you could work in a rhino for each tactical squad I believe that would be very helpful. Overall I like your list and think it will do quite well.

G

Both tac squads have rhinos, actually.

Missed it! : )

G

You're going to necro, right?

You might see it there.


Here's a redo of the list based off a few suggestions I received.


HQ
Lemartes … 125

Elites
6 man Death Company, jump … 90

5 man Veteran Assault, Drop Pod, Meltax2, Combi-plasma x 3 … 200

10 Man Veteran Assault, Powerfist x2, Lightning Claws x 1, Melta x 2… 375

Troops
10 man Tactical Squad, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Melta, Lascannon, Rhino … 280

10 man Tactical Squad, Power Fist, Melta, Lascannon, Rhino w/ Extra Armor … 300

Fast Attack
1 Land Speeder Tornado, Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon…100

1 Attack Bike, Multi-melta…50

1 Attack Bike, Multi-melta…50

Heavy Support

1 Baal Predator, Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor…140

1 Baal Predator, Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor…140

Why did you choose not to max out the DC? I find they are the biggest fire magnet and do the most damage, even if they do take a few casualties. Im curious if an attack bike and some extra armor isnt worth a few more black beakies?

I choose not to max out the dc because:

1. well, everyone else does so. I have to think about army comp, so if I'm a cookie cutter list, I get shoe horned into the same box as Nidzilla.

2. The main armies that give me problems are mech eldar and tau, things that the DC are not the optimal choice against. I need mobile tank killers. I don't need any help killing infantry. If the baals are penetrated and stunned, they're dead. Keeping them mobile might save them, thus EA. To be honest, I could drop EA from the one rhino, but it's modeled like that, and it looks cool. Sue me.

Army comp is for pussies. Bring what's good not what suckass players can't beat.

You will always be thin on heavy firepower, sadly. B+ on the list.

Army comp is for people who want to win tournies. Pussies are the ones who shun it.

A non-maxed DC is ideal actually.

I liked your first list better with a few minor changes. Put the vet assult marines on jump pack and make them have a more 50/50 mix of HTH and shooting. Then take your assult squads off jump packs and give them their free rhinos. This way you will have a beatiful 4 rhino wall with 3 assult units behind it. And the rhino wall is a great tactic(getting it out there before Stelek turns it into a tug-of-war)

It seems like juvenile posturing to say "army comp is for pussies". There *are* tournaments that use comp, despite this site's loathing of it. Comp is usually free points if you can design a strong army that gets a good score, and I can understand Valhallan's reasoning now. Sure, we'd all like to play with whatever we want and make armies as nasty as possible in order to win no matter what, but Id wager the large majority of players like some form of comp, with the caveat that very few of those players will be found here.

Id also like to say that 2 additional attack bikes will be of more use than 1 speeder. Mine always seem to die asap, even moreso now that they are 100 pts.

Hokkaido23 wrote:It seems like juvenile posturing to say "army comp is for pussies".

You hit the nail on the head.

Hokkaido23 wrote:It seems like juvenile posturing to say "army comp is for pussies". There *are* tournaments that use comp, despite this site's loathing of it. Comp is usually free points if you can design a strong army that gets a good score, and I can understand Valhallan's reasoning now. Sure, we'd all like to play with whatever we want and make armies as nasty as possible in order to win no matter what, but Id wager the large majority of players like some form of comp, with the caveat that very few of those players will be found here.

Id also like to say that 2 additional attack bikes will be of more use than 1 speeder. Mine always seem to die asap, even moreso now that they are 100 pts.

I generally ignore what Stelek says on other threads, or if I do listen to him, it's more to do the opposite of what he suggests.

My thought with the speeder is mainly that I want to have at least one last minute objective taker that can break out of hand to hand. In addition, we have a growing # of horde armies in out area, orks being the flavor of the month. Between the two baals and the speeder, that's one gutted mob per turn. Hmmm. Still, I could take two HB bikes... I'll think on it. thanks for the advice.

Hokkaido23 wrote:It seems like juvenile posturing to say "army comp is for pussies".

Quoted for truth. It does seem like juvenile posturing.

lol. you boys make me giggle.

Army comp doesn't exist at the game makers tournaments, they're so universally reviled.

lol I can only hope people DO take my advice, so my games aren't 30 minute wonders.

Didn't you know it's noobs like you that I'm here to help cause you're not a challenge at GTs? lol

The Challenge is Adepticon now. Why not you come by in 2009. You got some good army concepts (I made an army out of one of yours) and you have made top battle scores. I think you will love the challenge when the best players in the country gather especially former GT winners and of course the Tournament circuit champion.

I apologize for being OT

I should. I gotta get the wife to agree.

She has this thing about me going to vegas when we haven't had a honeymoon yet...and vegas is a car trip. Adepticon is a whole nuther ball of wax. I think if I go help run it next year, she'll let me play the year after that. lol I almost conned her into letting me go judge this year.

Stelek wrote:lol. you boys make me giggle.

Army comp doesn't exist at the game makers tournaments, they're so universally reviled.

lol I can only hope people DO take my advice, so my games aren't 30 minute wonders.

Didn't you know it's noobs like you that I'm here to help cause you're not a challenge at GTs? lol

While you may have useful advice to give, you package it poorly. Whether you mean to or not, you come off as superior and smug.

So, let's start fresh. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say. How would you design a successful BA list, given the current edition, and the general slant of Ork Hordes being the FoTM?

It's the internet.

I'm superior and smug to people I don't know.

The internet just makes it worse.

I'll crank up a list I'd run as a take-all-comers list, and it'll handle orks (and horde nids, when they get redone in a year or two).

So it has a mech theme with 4 rhinos (2 easy bake ovens, 2 suiciders/speed bumps).
It has a drop pod unit for plasma/flamer death.
It has 3 baal predators.
It has 2 full assault squads with jump packs.
It has a death company lead by lemartes, also with jump packs.

It has that which makes everyone wonder if they can win at the beginning of the game--lots of vehicles, and lots of assault marines.

It's scary.

1850 Pts - Blood Angels Roster - Blood Angels

1 Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost @ 125 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Crozius Arcanum; Death Mask; Rosarius
1 Death Mask @ [0] Pts
1 Jump Pack @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts

4 Assault Squad @ 150 Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x4); Chainsword (x4)
1 Blood Angels Rhino @ [45] Pts
Storm Bolter; Over-charged Engines; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [33] Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Chainsword (x1)

4 Assault Squad @ 150 Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x4); Chainsword (x4)
1 Blood Angels Rhino @ [45] Pts
Storm Bolter; Over-charged Engines; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [33] Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Chainsword (x1)

1 Baal Predator @ 100 Pts
Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Over-charged Engines; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

1 Baal Predator @ 100 Pts
Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Over-charged Engines; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

1 Baal Predator @ 100 Pts
Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Over-charged Engines; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

5 Veteran Assault Squad @ 180 Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x5); Bolter (x2); Power Weapon (x1); Flamer (x2)
1 Blood Angels Rhino @ [5] Pts
Storm Bolter; Over-charged Engines; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

5 Veteran Assault Squad @ 180 Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x5); Bolter (x2); Power Weapon (x1); Flamer (x2)
1 Blood Angels Rhino @ [5] Pts
Storm Bolter; Over-charged Engines; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

7 Death Company @ 35 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Jump Packs; Furious Charge

9 Assault Squad @ 270 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Chainsword (x9)
1 Sergeant @ [48] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon

9 Assault Squad @ 270 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Chainsword (x9)
1 Sergeant @ [48] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon

5 Veteran Assault Squad @ 190 Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x5); Combi-Plasmagun (x3); Flamer (x2); Drop Pod
1 Drop Pod @ [0] Pts
Storm Bolter; Inertial Guidance System

Total Roster Cost: 1850

Seems solid enough, though you have a lack of real AT fire. Sure the multiple AC have a chance at it but anything AV14 is going to be rough for you unless and until you can assault it and even then a smart person will keep their vehicles moving. Aside from that I'd play against it, though I don't think I'd be quite as scared as you seem to imagine.

So, name me the AV14 vehicle that can move more than 6" and fire.

Right, there isn't one. So if you move 6", you will get hit by the anti-tank weapons eventually.

Remember, most armies with AV14 vehicles are extremely vulnerable to assault.

Monoliths will be nerfed eventually, and this list can take everything else down...which is really just Leman Russes.

Baal Preds deal with AV12 and AV13 just fine in my experience, that's why you have three of them.

The Master of the Ravenwing's Land Speeder, Asdrubael Vect, a red-painted Battlewagon, and any AV14 vehicle that shoots and scoots.

The main armies that give me problems are mech eldar and tau, things that the DC are not the optimal choice against.

Actually DC have excelled in this role for me. I have even strung them out and brought down multiple skimmers. Tau really struggle against DC because of feel no pain and besides the railgun get fnp against all thier weapons. Baal predators in multiples are actually better at hunting armor than people think. In past threads the twin a-cannon is statistically better against AV12-13 than a lascannon. Besides monoliths I just don't see that much AV 14 in tournaments these days.

Ravenwing's Land Speeder, Asdrubael Vect, a red-painted Battlewagon

If thier playing with two out of these three options they have already put themselves in a negative points sink situation.

Hmmm Vect...yes, I saw that model once.

In a box.

Lemartes wrote:

The main armies that give me problems are mech eldar and tau, things that the DC are not the optimal choice against.

Actually DC have excelled in this role for me. I have even strung them out and brought down multiple skimmers. Tau really struggle against DC because of feel no pain and besides the railgun get fnp against all thier weapons. Baal predators in multiples are actually better at hunting armor than people think. In past threads the twin a-cannon is statistically better against AV12-13 than a lascannon. Besides monoliths I just don't see that much AV 14 in tournaments these days.

Even with the whole "hits on sixes" skimmer rule? I'm surprised, even with a LoH re-roll.

The real point I was trying to make is if you are chasing a vehicle around hoping to get it with melta bombs you're getting your ass shot off all the while. Battle wagons with deathrollers would love to see an army that relied on assault to destroy them, particularly if they're carrying a mob of burnaboys.

Dakkaladd wrote:The real point I was trying to make is if you are chasing a vehicle around hoping to get it with melta bombs you're getting your ass shot off all the while. Battle wagons with deathrollers would love to see an army that relied on assault to destroy them, particularly if they're carrying a mob of burnaboys.

Sorry, do you play 40K?

You can assault Battlewagons without a problem and blow them to bits.

No one DOG's battlewagons with a deffrolla, but since the deffrolla does nothing to assaulting troops...and does nothing to lots of troops in a clusterf*ck formation...what's it do again?

What battlewagon is moving more than 6" and shooting you? Even a battlewagon that isn't moving, how's it 'shooting your ass off'?

Or a LR? I mean come on.

Actually, if you do the math, an assault cannon is more effective than a lascannon vs armor 14 (Monoliths aside).

Granted, an assault cannon cannot pen, but it will get twice as many glances as a lascannon will get glance + penetrating hits.

Lascannon gets one shot, hits 2/3 of the time, and gets a glace or better 1/3 of the time, equalling 2/9 effects per lascannon's round of firing.

Assault cannon gets 4 shouts, hits 2/3 of the time, and will manage a rended glance 1/6 of the time, leading to 8/18 or 4/9 effects per weapon's round of firing.

Even with the whole "hits on sixes" skimmer rule? I'm surprised, even with a LoH re-roll.

That's my point thats why you want as many as you can take. 40 rerolls that hit on sixes and need sixes again, getting strength 11 on the further rending roll ain't half bad. If you start with a squad of six and take 2-3 casualties on the way in you have basically taken away the benefits of a rending squad with such a small number. Even in assaults you need the numbers to increase the rending odds and you want to tie up multiple squads with the DC on a larger front to prevent them from standing out in the open after a massacre to be shot at again.