Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm thinking about adding one of the following units to my ranks of Dwarfs. Ironbreakers or Slayers. Or maybe even Slayer Pirates.

My army is so far comprised of:

Runelord
Runesmith
Thane
Lord on Shieldbearers
Thane on Oathstone
BSB

2 units of 20 Warriors with HW
2 units of 10 Quarrelllers
2 units of 10 Thunderers
1 unit of 10 Rangers
1 unit of 15 Longbeards with GW
1 unit of 15 Longbeards with HW

Miners: 2 of 10, 1 of 18 or any mix of numbers.
1 unit of 15 Hammerers

All above listed units have shields if available.

Organ Gun
Cannon
2 Bolt Throwers
Grudge Thrower
Gyrocopter

I think Slayer pirates would be most fun and cool looking. Then of course there is the Armor save question.

Any input would be welcome.

The dwarfs have a hard time squeezing stuff to special slots especially if you have the good choices covered already. That said I'd prefer slayers as they are unlike other dwarf infantry (being unbreakable and all that). Getting a unit of Ironbreakers is just adding another dwarf elite infantry unit and as you have some longbeards and hammerers already...

Ironbreakers are a great anvil unit, but as chaoslord has indicated many of the special infantry units are much of a muchness, they are all great but in slightly different ways... except for slayers.

A unit of 20 will take forever to kill and when I used to run slayer cult army the only time I ever had a unit of 10 killed in 1 turn was when 3 chariots combo charged the unit.

Yeah I'd have to agree with the above as well. Slayers add something you do not have to the army. They are great for tieing up fear and terror causing units that the rest of your may run from. I love having them vs Vampire Counts because they can plow through zombies and skeletons all day long even when being flanked or rear-ended, because they just won't give in to fear and the higher avg. toughness makes it hard for these low str models/units to deal with.

I think slayers suck. If I were to play against slayers, i would avoid combat with them at all cost(not hard, seing as they are dwarfs) and shoot them. no armour save means they will die quickly to shooting, and if you do happen to get in cambat with them, i'd only have to kill about 10 of them, not 20, and i can do that pretty easily with sword masters. i'll stike first, with anywhere from 11-15 attack(depends on the formation). i will most likley hit and would wound on a 3. take the Iron Breakers. they COULD run, but with a Ld of 9 or even 10 with a dwarf lord, and a 2+ armour save, I doubt it.

Hammerers are good but they usually require the BSB to be in the area. You will fluf the leadership 9 roll sometimes and when you do it REALLY hurts.

Slayers perform the same job, albeit they die a little faster, but they dont need the bsb in the area. They are also killier than the hammerers. Also, take 3-4 of the champs and you will easily deal with any swordmaster units in the area. They have to specifically target each individual champ and that gets really annoying real fast.

As for what to add to the army?
I would bump the warriors up to 25 and the longbeards to 20 each before anything else.

I can see the longbeards going to 20 models. But 25 warriors? Would that be set up as a 5x5 unit so you have 5 wounds before any losing rank bonus?

I do worry about the slayers running around naked and getting shot. But the frenzy psych immunity seems worth it (if I'm remembering the unit details properly). Though the Slayer axes being used 2 handed seems dumb to me. Extra hand weapon always wounding on 4+(I think) seems superior to me.

Iron Breakers do seem like more of the same so far as my specials and longbeards go.

What about the Pirate Slayers people? I thought they always seemed cool with the 'festooned with pistols' rule.

i've never really looked into the pirate slayers much. I suppose that for me the unit I would bring would depend on the army I was playing. If I were to play an army with lots of shooting likw any elves, and other dwarfs, i would bring iron Breakers. if i were to play an army with little shooting like VC an brettonnians, i might bring slayers. as for slayer taking care of my swordmasters, yes i would specify attacks against every champion, and it wouldn't get old to me. I thinkk for slayers to be really effective, they need to give them llike a 6+ ward or something.

If they are shooting at the slayers they aren't shooting at the other rank and file units you have that need ranks.... and should be advancing as noone likes a castling dwarf player.
Doesn't matter if slayers are 20 wide 1 rank (I have seen them run that way as a missile screen) because ranks mean nothing to them, who cares if they get shot. Another unit would be shot at anyway.

As a side note I'm off to a 3000 point tourney in a fortnight and if I face a dwarf army and they set up a castle in a corner I'm setting up a castle with my lizzies in another corner- 10 minutes later game over, and I can go and watch some real games.

Do people line up slayers in a single rank?

I guess you could set them up in just one line, if you wanted to protect a more expensive unit from being shot at since the are a bit cheaper than most of the other elites and won't run from panic. But I don't see that happening much they are usually to busy hacking stuff to bits.

Also I prefer to use the two hand weapon option for most battles, unless its against an elven hero or similarly weak unit. Then I go for the two-handed axe attack so that I can destroy them on a 2+ wound roll and force a decent negative to their armour. Those are the cases where you want to use the two-handed axe option, or if you have a slayer hero and his str is 5+. Then you want to use it against chariots to pop them in one hit. (str 7 vs chariot = instant death)

Arion wrote:I think slayers suck. If I were to play against slayers, i would avoid combat with them at all cost(not hard, seing as they are dwarfs) and shoot them. no armour save means they will die quickly to shooting, and if you do happen to get in cambat with them, i'd only have to kill about 10 of them, not 20, and i can do that pretty easily with sword masters. i'll stike first, with anywhere from 11-15 attack(depends on the formation). i will most likley hit and would wound on a 3. take the Iron Breakers. they COULD run, but with a Ld of 9 or even 10 with a dwarf lord, and a 2+ armour save, I doubt it.

That's almost the entire point of the unit. They serve as area denial weapons and shooting magnets. Wanna avoid my slayers? Fine, it's like having a piece of terrain which I'm free to move that also has the ability to charge. Wanna shoot my slayers? Ok, then you're not shooting another unit which might be more threatening; like gyrocopters or artillery units.

all i'm saying is, I've used slayers, and i've used them in all the ways mentioned here, and I have never found them worth taking. somtimes i'll take a dragon or deamon slayer, but other than that, I prefer deep formations of dwarfs with heavy armour and shild with GW for combat. pummle those advancing on you with artillery and thunderers, and that should be good enough. i don't like units that are only there to attract fire. i don't like losing models. and slayers are not going to get the charge. dwarfs very rarly charge, and players are going to be even more carful with slayers. you might tie a unit up for a few rounds, but that also means you "awesome" unit is tied up for a few rounds. i would rather take a unit that is going to win combat, and move on.

Actually one of my favorite tactics is the dwarven mine formation. Basically in the middle of your battle line you form up a 2x5 slayer unitso that 6 guys are standing in line sticking out from your main battle line. And to either side of the slayer unit you put what ever blocks of dwarf infantry you want to get charges in. So the formation looks like this:

_____________ _____________
_____________ _____________
_____________ _____________


_____
_____


LEGEND:
- Slayers
- Dwarf Unit 1
- Dwarf Unit 2

This forces the enemy to either charge the pin and stop(slayers sticking out) allowing your units to counter charge and move your lin forward. Or charge past the slayers into one of your bigger units giving the slayers the ability to charge that enemy unit in the flank. You don't have to worry about the rank bonus of the slayers or how many die when the pin is pushed because they are unbreakable. One other thing about this tactic is to only move the pin out the turn before enemies are in charge distance. That way they won't get as much time to think about the trap. If you deploy your battle line with the pin sticking out they have multiple turns to react and think of a counter.

Just a warning, if you pin the slayers in like that they cannot charge a unit that hits units 1 or 2. If they cant wheel into position they cant charge.

]

Ahh yes, guess I can't show the proper facing eh.

The slayers can be facing either way to start with since they by no means need to face forwards since they are completely ment to take a charge and will still not run when flanked. So you face them the direction the enemy is most likely to choose (go left or go right around them). If the enemy somehow does a wheel to get around and into the unit on the other side you will have to take two turns to make the charge(one to reform and one to charge). It is the one issue with this strategy. So the idea is to guess which unit your enemy wants to hit. Generally I face my Slayers towards the weaker/less dangerous unit, which is what they are most likely to charge.

Thanks for pointing out my oversight of the explination.

That means you arent marching and therefore your dwarf line is really slow.

Also implies the enemy doesnt have 3 units to charge into you with to hold up all three of your units...

Correct the line isn't moving, it's a dwarf army. Which means I shoot you and you try to advance under the onslaught. And when you finally cross the battlefield to crash upon our mighty walls and stone tough infantry you will be broken like a wave upon the rocks. The only time the line moves forward is for the mini-three inch counter charge if at all. Otherwise it's hold the line!!!


Part of playing a dwarf army is to know how to work with less blocks of infantry(since you are generally out numberd in terms of blocks), but still get the mini charges in since you always have a shorter charge range. Another good way to cause chaos and force these charges is to force a block of the enemy to charge across the path of another block of infantry by using the "rune of challenge" or whatever its called. Its great for forcing a weak block of troops to charge into your stronger unit that they weren't directly lined up with and block the path of a stronger enemy unit that was lined up for a charge and was clearly intended to be the unit that charged in. If you then proceed to break the enemy unit and make it flee you may even send the stronger unit running from the forced panic test as the first unit runs through them.

I'd add another unit of Warriors. Unless you're not using both units of Longbeards. Remember, no more units of Longbeards than Warriors

2 units of 20 Warriors with HW
2 units of 10 Quarrelllers
2 units of 10 Thunderers
1 unit of 10 Rangers
1 unit of 15 Longbeards with GW
1 unit of 15 Longbeards with HW

Miners: 2 of 10, 1 of 18 or any mix of numbers.
1 unit of 15 Hammerers

---------------------------

I'd up the anny on your units of warriors--units of 25, and I'd get another unit. I'd get rid of the rangers--over priced for what they are. Up the Hammerers to 20. And as far as the new unit....well, it depends on what you want, as others have said here. Tar pit? Go with Slayers. Solid wall of steel for your battle line? Ironbreakers. I just got the 25th Anniversary set, and I'm looking forward to a block of 20 Ironbreakers in my line with two units of 30 Warriors and 20 Longbeards, and 20 Miners