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So I've been on a 40k standby for a while now, pretty much after the Ork Codex leaked and I played it a ton, I just got into Fantasy and other games. With the 5th Ed rumored rules, I had enough foresight to hold off actually building the new Orks I bought in anticipation of the new Dex's release.

So I've been thinking about 5th, at least what we know of it, and what I will turn the Green Beast into when it hits. Granted this thread is entirely speculation, but hey, why not have some fun speculating?

Here are some of the things I'm thinking will be true come 5th's release for Orks:

Lootas will no longer be worth it.
Kommandos, with normal PK Nobz & Burnas will be very happy to replace them, if the rules for infiltrators stay as rumored.
Battlewagons will possibly be very worth fielding with a KFF Mek around (debatable).
Killa Kan Mobz will also become much more appealing.
A cheap fully CC Dread may be worth a Troops choice.
An incredible amount of Boyz on the ground with Shootas will be the best thing since Sliced Bread
The Warboss may no longer be worth it (2KFF Meks may be better)

Oddly enough, I don't know how worth it Storm Boyz will be with the new Book. Sure with their extra move PLUS run, they're stupid fast, but expensive and other things in the list can do what they do for less points, especially multiple units of Kommandos with PK Nobz running in from the sides of the board.

I think the first thought is going to be fairly controversial, but a Static unit that takes up that many points may not be worth it in 5th. I could be wrong, because with the 4+ cover proliferating about, a unit could be nice if there was a good fire lane, but in general their main job of anti-tank is going to be neutered in 5th Ed's rules. Our best anti-tank is going to be PK Nobz whacking the hell out of stuff. Sure they can put out a ton of shots, but so can Shoota Boyz.

On one hand I see armored Vehicles seeing a bit of a resurgence, and I see my KoS styled lists with Battlewagons up front screening Trukks being much better with a KFF Mek in them running around. But because of the new rules Melta Guns = Dead Tanks no matter what you're firing at, so I expect to see a lot more of those on the table no matter who I'm facing, so the Battle Wagons who have to get close to do bad things may not be worth it.

On the other hand, expendable units of Kanz or even a Cheapo Dread could be pretty nice in a horde list.

All this said, I'm still waiting to see the template rules. If they are as rumored it could balance out the desire for a horde of troops on the table. Hordes suddenly become a LOT less scary when most armies are packing pie plates of some kind. I see Marines with 3 Whirlwinds, 3 Hammerheads, Fire Prisms, Russes, etc, becoming the Norm in a lot of armies if the template rules become that good. This is the one thing I can see being a real counter to horde Orks, and if it pans out then we may be looking at a completely different metagame, if Templates catch on.

I think stormboyz will still be worth it - at least one unit of them. They'll be the first shock troops to hit. You can write them off as dead, but hopefully you take out the devestators/other static shooty units that have the potential to hurt your large mobs of shoota boyz.

Potentially you could also use a couple of smaller mobs of them to hit whirlwinds ect. Take 12 with a pk nob and use them to get to the non-LOS ordnance hiding behind that forest. With potential 24" reach they could take out a whirly first turn. True kommandos can do the same thing, but not till turn 2 at the earliest and maybe not till later turns.

Maybe it's just the local meta-game, but I still don't find ork vehicles to be that reliable. There's way too many lascannons/railguns/what have you on the table to make ork armour worth it. I'd rather have another mob of shoota boyz.

KK's and dreads on the other hand I agree with. 9 KKs and 2 dreads as troops flood the field and are fairly reliable. I may need to get a couple more KK's to try this out.

Lootas: parking a near full mob of them in 4+ or 3+ cover is still worth it IMO. Since they are a jack-of-all-trades no matter what game you're playing, they are probably worth it. Especially if people are concentrating on killing you troops. In 1500 or less they are probably less viable, but to go from 1500 to 1750 I think they are the unit to take you there.

If the dedicated transport rules hold up (ie after deployment any transport can transport any squad), a unit of burnas might be very worthwhile. Currently they have two things against them - slow and lootas/kommandos are better choices. You could drop the lootas in favor of two squads of kommandos and one squad of burnas. During first turn you embark the burnas, zoom the trukk up the field and have a power-weapon weilding unit ready to burn. Even MEQ's don't like it when you drop 10 flame templates on a squad.

Mid-July should be interesting.

I wonder if power klaws also have to be taken in pairs to get the extra attack? Will they work as power fists do?

Grots become a little more interesting if when firing through them at the orks gives the orks a 4+ cover save, and you don't lose any grots!!

Wonder if the new rules influenced some of the "odd" stuff we saw in the ork book....

I think Lootas will still be decent, but even harder to protect. Everyone will now be trying to protect their lines waiting for someone to come in behind them... it's going to change things quite a bit.

I'm sure the Klaws will have to be taken in pairs, they're the same as a Power Fist so no big difference there. Our Nobs will still get one extra attack over a MEQ w/ a Power Fist, but the overall utility goes down.

I still think Lootas are a thing of the past, their main job now is Anti-Tank first, anti-infantry second. In 5th their primary job has now left the window and we've already got the BEST anti-infantry Troops choice in the game, that can move, fire, assault, and react to the enemy, as opposed to being a low model count unit that has to sit still to work.

IMO, I think Kanz + Boyz will be the "Fo-Shizzle".

I dunno. While lootas definatly won't be the monster that they are now, and even if shoota boyz get better (in respective to other armies), lootas will still be a more than viable choice.

They might not be the *best* choice, that will probably forever be the realm of shoota boyz and KFFs, no matter what happens. Talk to readbeard, and he'll tell you that’s the way it is even now. But will they become crap? certainly not. Also, them not being able to score is not such a colossal disadvantage as its being made out to be. Think about it. When the hell do lootas actually take objectives in V.4? In cleanse. Period. And even then, cleanse isn't a 'stacking' bonus vps mission, it's a 'toggle' scoring-unit/no-scoring-unit mission, so odds are something else is holding your table quarter anyway. Additionally, they don't even actually garner any bounus vps, they just prevent your opponent from doing so (arguably the same thing, but whatever). Their anti-tank utility does go down, but that’s a hit they deserve and can take in stride and still kick ass.

-Leo037

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Battlewagons will possibly be very worth fielding with a KFF Mek around (debatable).
Killa Kan Mobz will also become much more appealing.
An incredible amount of Boyz on the ground with Shootas will be the best thing since Sliced Bread
The Warboss may no longer be worth it (2KFF Meks may be better)

NO SH!T?!

Wait a minute....

Toreador wrote:Grots become a little more interesting if when firing through them at the orks gives the orks a 4+ cover save, and you don't lose any grots!!

And then you move your orks forward, move the grots a bit behind the gaps in the ork unit; fire the orks, then run the grots forward...

Fun times to be had by all.

decent, rather cheap mobile cover for both lootas and tankbustas if you need it. Really depends on if the 4+ save goes both ways.

Toreador wrote:decent, rather cheap mobile cover for both lootas and tankbustas if you need it. Really depends on if the 4+ save goes both ways.

Actually what you do is like this:

O = Ork
g = Grot

OgOgOgO

Fire the Orks (no one blocks your LOS, and no one gets any saves).

Then...

o=Ork
G=Grot

Now that your Grots are 1/2" behind the front of your Orks, and the Orks, it's time to run the Grots.

GoGoGoG

Gee, can I roll a 1 on D6?

Yay! I get the benefit of 3 point models giving cover saves to my 6 point models.

Welcome to 5th edition.

I mean, 2nd edition. 3rd. Ah whatever.

40K rehash duex!

I revise my opinion:

It's not going to be Kanz + Boyz; it'll be Boyz + Kommandoz w/ PK Nobs that come on via short Table edges.

I think i'm still going to take the lootas and see how they do. even if there are cover saves they can still throw out an impressive number of dice.. sometimes

NaZ

againts MEW what would you do with burnas? power weapon or template?

If you can get a charge in on marines, use powerweapons with your furious charge. Unless they are so horribly clumped up that you can hit everyone with everyone.

If templates work as rumored it may be worth burning marines, since you work out hits with all templates at once you essentially count up the hits with your first one and multiply that by the number firing. I've found that even marines can't stand up to 15 flame templates.