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(Unfortunately, my local GW has *yet* to get in a shipment of VC Army Books, so this is basically from memory but that shouldn't be too problematic)

The scenario:

-> Manfred (the more powerful version) chooses the Arcane Item that allows him to sacrifice a wound during the magic phase to gain an extra power dice for that phase.

-> I buy Manfred a Nightmare mount and put him in a unit of Black Knights.

-> I buy an Army Standard Bearer dude, give him a Nightmare, the banner that gives his unit regeneration, and put him in the same unit of Black Knights.

-> Can Manfred make a regeneration roll on his wounds he sacrifices to his Arcane Item (whose name I forgot) during the magic phase?

No, if you are taking a save it means you are not sacrificing a wound or in effect not taking the wound. If you don't take the wound you don't get the power dice. So I guess you could roll a regen, but then you wouldn't get the extra power dice since it requires a wound to have been suffered.

...something seems fishy about your reasoning...

Sacrifice means you willingly give up something. If you make a save you are obviously not willingly giving up the wound, you are resisting.

Think of it like buying something. If you pay for something and then take back the money you gave the clerk did you really pay for it? No, so if you don't lose the wound it is like you aren't paying for the power die.

But what if I bash the clerk over the head and take it when he's not looking, and leave a penny?

Did I pay for it? Or did I just sacrifice the clerk?

without actually having the book in front of me id say yes.

how does regeneration work. Is it a third save after armour saves and ward saves? I thought it worked like Carnifex regeneration, you roll at the beginning of each turn.

It's a Ward Save taken after regular Armor and Ward Saves, so yes, a 3rd save.

then I would say no.

but nice try .

No, there is no roll to hit or wound so no saves of any kind.

I was under the impression that regeneration saves are special in that they can be taken out of context in certain areas. Granted I'm still very noobish to a lot of the Fantasy rules and semantics, but I remember an example- an Undead unit gets beaten in combat and loses models due to outnumbering and it's own Undead special rule- if this unit has regeneration, it is allowed to make a regeneration save on these wounds (however no armor save [and I'm pretty sure no ward either]).

Are there other situations where Regeneration would apply out of context of the "wound roll" scenario?

Only when the rule specifies, which the Undead one does.

I see. Okay!

Dice Monkey wrote:No, there is no roll to hit or wound so no saves of any kind.

My reasoning as well.

Mr. Bombadidaloo wrote:I was under the impression that regeneration saves are special in that they can be taken out of context in certain areas. Granted I'm still very noobish to a lot of the Fantasy rules and semantics, but I remember an example- an Undead unit gets beaten in combat and loses models due to outnumbering and it's own Undead special rule- if this unit has regeneration, it is allowed to make a regeneration save on these wounds (however no armor save [and I'm pretty sure no ward either]).

Such an f-ed up rule ... :S

- Salvage

yeah, kinda messed up. ok, I got beaten in combat, so I crumble, but I can regen!! ha ha, you can't break me, and I will never be destroyed!!!!

"...unless you've got a box of matches! You haven't though, right? *gulp*"

I thrink it'll not be allowed, but ok.

Reading the rull of regeneration, it acts like a third save, but it isn't one. If you use the steel soul (if i remember correctly) spell, let a charecter lose one wound. It may not take any saves, but is is allowed to try to regenerate that wound... So i'm not totally sure about this.

Grtz. Pim