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A friend of mine insists that there's a rule that states that an IC cannot start a game attached to squad in a dedicated transport. I'm attaching my BT Emperors champion to a squad of 9 tac marines in a drop pod. As far as i know this is legal but he insists it isn't, anyone know for sure? And if it sin't legal please direct me to where the rule is.

He is both right and wrong. Independent characters (IC’s) are separate force organization choices and thus deploy separately. However, during deployment, you can choose to have an IC join a unit and be embarked on that unit’s transport. Now understand that this is during deployment. Not before, not on your army list, or anything like that.

Here is where things get rough. Since both the unit and the IC are separate force org choices and separate units, you have to roll reserves for them separately if they are in reserves, so it is quite possible for one to show up on the board without the other. They also have to move on from the board edge, so you will have to move both in and then have the IC join the squad / embark on the transport in their first movement phase since you won’t be able to in any off the board fashion. In missions with escalation, the IC (who is a foot trooper) will be deployed on the board at the start of the game and the transport with its troops will be in reserves (and there isn’t anything you can do to change that).

In the case of your drop pod, there isn’t any way to start your IC in the pod with the squad that’s in it. So while your friend is right about that, he’s not completely correct.

Yep, by RAW that BT Emp Chump in a BT Drop Pod army actually has to start on the table all by himself, unless some special scenario rule allows you to place him in Reserve.

gotcha but where is the rule that specifies that the chapion cannot start in the drop pod?

There is no rule that specifically prohibits it.

There's simply no way provided by the rules to do it unless you're playing one of the Advanced missions that would let you keep him in Reserve, and pass your Reserves roll for him and the unit at the same time.

if i tried to even bring that up and force my opponent to conform to those rules, i'd be labeled a jerk - and i have been for far less. it might not be the letter of the rules but pointing it out will only lead to points off of your sportsmanship score. I'd let you do it because it's conceivable in the spirit of the rules.

armus wrote:I'd let you do it because it's conceivable in the spirit of the rules.

While it may be in the spirit of the rules and you certainly would be a gracious opponent for allowing such a thing, it is not actualy in the rules. The rules are there to tell you what you can do, not so much what you can't do. So unless there is something in there which allows you to do something, you can't do it. An unfortunate side effect of this is that sometimes they don't think about some things that you should be able to do and rules for it don't get included.

Take heart though, if the 5th edition rumors prove to be true, you'll be able to attach IC's to units (and their transports) before deployment. This will mean that the Champion will be able to join up with that drop pod squad.

I also believe you can if the IC can take a unit with a dedicated transport as a troops choice, such as the Warboss with Meganobz who have the Battle Wagon as a Dedicated Transport

Skaskull, your beliefs are your beliefs, but can you show us any rule that backs them up?

Yup. The old codices written under 3rd edition (and the first one or two 4th ed, like SM) had retinue units, where the IC and his bodyguard were part of the same Force Org chart, and thus if they start the game in Reserve they'll come on together. The newer ones have not had the option.

The INAT FAQ allows attaching ICs to units in Reserves beforehand, but they specifically label it as a change.

http://www.adepticon.org/files/INAT_FAQ.pdf

In the Ork Codex 4th Edition it says on Pg. 97 under Warboss in a box "A Warboss allows one Meganobz or Nobz mob to be taken as a Troops Choice." On the next page under Mega Armored Nobz under transport it says a Mega Armored Nobz Unit may take the Battle Wagon or Trukk (assuming they can fit) as a dedicated transport vehicle. Since there are no rules to the contrary, I would assume that since you can take a unit of Meganobz as a troops choice and a vehicle as a transport of choice for a unit of Meganobz that would carry over to the warboss.

You are right that there is nothing that says the Meganobz in a troops choice can be customized, but it doesn't say they can't. Since there are no inhibitory rules I would assume the Meganobz troops choice act as Meganobz in the same way that regular Meganobz unit.

It is my assumption, but it seems to be well enough supported that it merits the assumption.

So where in all that does it say that the Warboss starts with or is attached to that unit? Those Nobz/Meganobz are the same as regular Nobz/Meganobz. The only difference is that they are a Troops choice. They do not become a retinue for your Warboss.

That is a very good point. I misunderstood the rule. However, it seems like another person at my local GS misunderstood it too. I'm sorry for the misinformation.

No prob. It is a bit annoying and counterintuitive, which is part of why the INAT FAQ crew ruled as they did (as well as so that DE, BA, and BT players could have drop pod armies without their poor HQs starting on the table alone.

Skaskull, no big deal. And hey, if it makes sense to most people you play with, there's no reason not to house rule it.

wasn't there some rule that said that if a character joins a unit with a xport that he may also ride in it if there was room. I thought I remembered reading somthing like that before. Cant remember where.

Page 81, but you will notice the rule does not cover the situation the OP was asking about.

smart_alex wrote:wasn't there some rule that said that if a character joins a unit with a xport that he may also ride in it if there was room. I thought I remembered reading somthing like that before. Cant remember where.

This is true, but there are only a couple of ways to get there. One is to embark into the transport during the movement phase. The other is to deploy into the transport (which must already be on the board when the IC's turn to deploy comes around). In the case of things like drop pods, there is no way for the IC to join the drop pod squad (the original focus of this discussion) since neither of the 2 previously mentioned methods of getting into the transport are possible.

Phoenix wrote:

smart_alex wrote:wasn't there some rule that said that if a character joins a unit with a xport that he may also ride in it if there was room. I thought I remembered reading somthing like that before. Cant remember where.

This is true, but there are only a couple of ways to get there. One is to embark into the transport during the movement phase. The other is to deploy into the transport (which must already be on the board when the IC's turn to deploy comes around). In the case of things like drop pods, there is no way for the IC to join the drop pod squad (the original focus of this discussion) since neither of the 2 previously mentioned methods of getting into the transport are possible.

Actually, the BGB FAQ gives another alternative: you can join a squad while in reserves if both the IC and the squad happen to arrive (ie get a successful reserves roll) at the same time.

Of course, the problem lies in missions (ie all except, some may argue, escalation) not specifically allowing units to be kept in reserve if they simply want to. At least this should be fixed in v5...