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Is it possible that Spawn aren't that bad?

for 120 points you get call it an 18" charge.

Compare to Raptors. You get six Raptors for 120 points. One way to look at things is that Spawn are W3 with no save. So realities of statistical variance aside, this makes them about equal to a Space Marine with W1 and a 3+ save. (because the save works 2 in 3 times).

So Spawn get 1 W for every 2 W Raptors get. If that makes sense. Spawn are T5 and are effectively immune to power weapons and power fists. So Raptors have a bit of an edge here. Alternatively, Spawn could be useful for things like S6 Monstrous Creatures.

Raptors are more attacky. They are faster over two turns and can carry Characters, special weapons and a power fist. But Spawn are still effective counter-charge, like Rough Riders. From a mobility standpoint.

Spawn are fearless. Raptors are flying CSM. Raptors get shooting attacks.

Offense wise, Raptors get about the same number of attacks when you take into consideration the S5.

If you take Chaos Glory and a ld 10 Champ with a power weapon the 6 raptors are 160, for which price you can get 4 Spawn. It is now 6W vs 4W. Fearless vs ld10 re-roll.

Against MEQ the champ counts as 12 attacks on the charge. The other guys are 15 attacks. 27 attacks, 2.25 dead MEQ.

After one spawn is removed at I3, it is 13.5 attacks, 1.5 dead MEQ.

So if it was equal points, the Spawn would be 27 points instead of 40. You could get three spawn for the price of two. In exchange they are fearless, and have an advantage against power weapons, S3 and blast weapons.

So I would say in conclusion, they suck. Competively they are worth 30 points. So if you take 3 in 2000 you are throwing away 30 points. Not bad, really. I think their biggest problem is that they don't actually DO anything. So say a squad of Raptors might be nothing more than a Character delivery system, but then again they ARE a character delivery system.

But they are not bad counter-charge if you are more shooty and want something different.

The other thing is that if they get out-numbered they are going to start taking wounds in a hurry, assuming there are any left.

spawn are terrible. for 40pts you get a model that may or may not get to the enemy, doesnt do what YOU want it to do and has no save. saying no save is an advantage against power weapons is like saying paper is an advantage against bullets. they have random attacks so mathhammer applies less to them than it does to anything with a static stat line. you cant use them for a counter charge because the have to go scurrying off towards the nearest enemy unit. if they even do manage to get anywhere (not a gaurentee by any means) they will likely spend a fair bit of their time running after AV 12 vehicles hopelessly. they infact dont do anything useful at all. any amount of spawn is points wasted that could otherwise be spent on almost anything else.

Regwon wrote:you cant use them for a counter charge because the have to go scurrying off towards the nearest enemy unit.

damn I forgot that part.

ah well.

they have lots of eyeballs.

So, spawn suck because:

Slow.
Not controlled.
Enforced unit size.
No rending.

They will also give up 2 KP like crazy to anyone who wants them in 5th edition.

If they got some kind of tunnelling deep strike, they'd have a use even in their horrible current state.

Without it, they're...neat models.

Too bad GW made them, they're worthless in 40k.

Can buy a box of 10 and give 10 people you don't really like at your FLGS a new model.

it's very disapointing.

they are only really usable if you like to take alot of Gift of Chaos.

Aren't they also I3, IIRC.

That means the only ones who can attack are the ones who survive the beating the MEQ give them.

Eric