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So I'm a 40k ork kult of speed player and I'm quite used to the rules about shooting with my squad from my opened topped vehicles.

but I'm building a blood angles army.. and with that comes closed top rhinos.

so I have a few specific questions:

1: Is there a movement limit for regular and fast vehicles that prevents the passengers from shooting?

2: Are the passengers obligated to shoot at the same target as the vehicle?

3: Can a marine armed with a meltagun try to take a shot the same turn that the rhino pops smoke?

I know the rules make some clarification, like that line of sight for the weapon is drawn from the vehicle itself for open topped or from the fire point for closed topped vehicles. but clearing up these 3 points would be of huge help to me

Thanks in advance

NaZ

1: just as with fast vehicles, passengers may shoot from the vehicle as long as it has not moved more than 12", though the vehicle's shooting may be affected.

2: No, the two are separate units.

3: I don't have my book handy on me right now but if smoke happens in the shooting phase then you could simply shoot, then smoke. Unless the smoke rule prohibits this of course.

Naz, please be sure to check your rulebook as well as with us. It's also always a good idea to check the FAQ:

http://us.games-workshop.com/errata/assets/40k_rulebook_faq.pdf

1. As Dakkalad stated, and as the rulebook very clearly states, passengers may fire as long as the vehicle moved no more than 12" (assuming it's open topped or has a fire point, of course).

2. Transports and the units they came with are always treated as separate units from the moment you deploy them. Again, this one's in the main book.

3. Smoke Launchers are used in the movement phase, after the vehicle moves. They prevent it from shooting in the shooting phase. I can't for the life of me recall right now whether 4th ed closed the loophole and forbade passengers within from shooting as well. You'll want to check the rules for Smoke Launchers in the main book. The main rulebook FAQ and SM FAQ don't say anything about it. I just checked.

http://us.games-workshop.com/errata/assets/SpaceMarinesFAQ.pdf

RAW will allow your squad inside to shoot from the fire points as normal when the Rhino pops smoke. Doing this, however, will receive you all kinds of flak on sportsmanship. It is quite obvious the RAI follow the path of logical reasoning- if your vehicle with all its advanced targeting systems can't shoot because it's covered in a cloud of smoke, there's absolutely no way the passengers inside would be able to.

...Unless you were to argue that when a vehicle "pops smoke" what it's actually doing is spending all its energy and attention that would go towards shooting instead on popping a cute little smoke grenade out of a chimney on the top. *HURRRNNNNNNNRRRNNN* *Pop!*

mannahnin,

Thanks, I did actually research the rulebook first before bringing it here. but after it seeming somewhat nebulous for what I wanted to do I thought I'd hit the forum to get the quickest response.

i do agree that point 3 is a little cheesy. but the other 2 are a huge help for me. in particular that a rhino can move 12" and still have the passenger shoot a meltagun is huge for me.

the other is like using the stormbolter to try to pop an ork trukk then using the meltagun and 2 bolters to try to soften up the squad without getting out

or trying to take a melta shot at a monolith while still being protected by the rhino itself

Thanks,

NaZ

Using Smoke Launchers is a rule with an effect. Stating that it is actually smoke is Fluff (the BGB even states that it could be something more sophisticated). You could just as easily say that the transport is activating a sophisticated defense mechanism like interceptors or an integrity field or anything else that wouldn't actually prevent the passengers from shooting while providing defense.

Firing from a "smoked" transport is common in my neck of the woods and never really seemed odd or unsporting. Just goes to show that RAW isn't the law of the land everywhere.

If it says the vehicle cannot shoot then I would say yes the passengers can fire as the passengers are not part of the vehicle.

Wow, seems shady to me but I cant find anything linking the vehicles restrictions onto the passengers.

I wont be trying it myself though.

Just goes to show how perceptions differ. I see nothing "shady" about it, and was not in fact aware that anyone could think this was an issue until I read this thread. By RAW, there is clearly nothing stopping the passengers from firing. I have always played it this way and never received any objections. The rules are, for once, crystal clear.

If you don't see it as shady, I guess you're one of those dudes who instead of going "Ok, poppin' smoke!" goes "Ok, poppin' advancedcoutermeasureantiantitankstuff!"

You could explain it by saying that the passengers fire before the vehicle activates its smoke launchers, in which case it wouldn't interefere with their shooting.

You could do that, if Smoke weren't used in the movement phase. Still, you can fluff it however you want.

If you don't see it as shady, I guess you're one of those dudes who instead of going "Ok, poppin' smoke!" goes "Ok, poppin' advancedcoutermeasureantiantitankstuff!"

No, smoke is smoke (unless you want it to be something else). I see it as ridiculous, but shady implies there is something objectionable about using it. I don't think there is. I find the hidden fist mechanic, the you-go-I-go turn system, and the fact that being really heroic lets you eat three times as much lead as the next guy before dying just as if not more ridiculous, but you won't find me bitching my opponent out for using hidden fists, the turn mechanic or Chappies.

NaZ wrote:1: Is there a movement limit for regular and fast vehicles that prevents the passengers from shooting?

No one has mentioned one extra point...I think the unit inside the vehicle counts as moving so you can't use heavy weapons if the vehicle moves.

I can't think of a unit that is slow and purposeful, can fit in a vehicle with fire ports and has a heavy weapon. Wouldn't that be a fun mess to figure out.

True, but Thousand Sons can fire their Bolters out to 24" from a moving Rhino because of S&P. A shame we don't have Rubric Havoks. :(