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I did a search and found little on this topic other then "it sucks." If there is a on depth discussion on this topic on the forums and I could get a link that would be great and ignore this.

I have been playing with the new dex for about a month and a half now and I have liked alot of the changes and hated others. One the things I liked over the last was the change they made to the Uge Choppa. Since it no longer goes last if finnaly gives my standerd nobs and Cheap war boss a better then average chance at killing tanks and most espesially the dreaded wraith Lord. Of course the Power Klaw is the supperier option, but some lists are very tight on points but still need a little oomph. For instance I play with a medium sized Nob squad in a truck. Is it the best unit in the dex hell no, but I have always loved them so I have worked them into my 1850 lists.

Any way for 5 points I can now wound marines on a 2 and plague marines and bikers on a 3. I can glance or penatrate any transport in the game except land raiders. Not to mention the hitting of wraith Lords and big bugs.

Now I am not endorsing the uge choppa in large mobs of boyz but I am saying that for the price adding some into a nob squad or in cheap throw away squads could be a viable or if you just need to make up a few points..

They're okay if you field Nob squads, but putting them on Warbosses or the single Nob in a normal squad is a huge waste. You need 1 PK in any squad that intends to see CC and you certainly need a PK on the Warboss (or you'd have been better off with a different HQ). Even in Nob squads, you're already wounding Marines on a 3+ when you charge, so is it worth 5 pts and one attack to wound on a 2+ instead? I guess so, if you're just spending those last few points. No otherwise.

What of the higher toughness opponents that you get tied up with on occasion? Would not the Uge choppa be a benefit in the later turns?

Which high T opponents are these? In almost all cases, the PK will do the job. High T does not usually come cheap, so you shouldn't be looking at a sea of T5 or T6. There are exceptions, like Plaguebearers, but they are few and far between. Come to think of it, I don't know if there are any besides Plaguebearers.

Actually, I have found a good use of the uge choppa. If you run nobs on bikes all with klaws, it is beneficial to run a warboss with uge choppa with them to deal with the occasional walker. He will be striking before most walkers with S8 on the charge. Also, the uge choppa becomes a more viable option with the power fist/klaws losing their extra attack from 2 weapons.

uge choppas will be extremely useful against demons, since you might actually strike at their Inititave, depending on which one it is.

Dakkalad, why kit out your Warboss to fight the one enemy he (or Nob bikers--does anyone actually use them, by the way?) should not fight? Why not just shoot the damn thing with your Lootas/rokkits, charge it with Stormboyz, or simply avoid it with the movement you paid such a premium for? Fielding a Warboss in the config you mention means throwing away 105 points (at a bare minimum) in order to save you from a situation only stupidity can usually land you in.

tegeus-Cromis wrote: (or Nob bikers--does anyone actually use them, by the way?)

That is a question only someone who hasn't played with or seen them played would ask. Nob bikers are a good example of a unit that seems unreasonable on paper, but on the field is probably the most effective single unit in the game. With a bike, PK and cybork body they become 80pts a model. Expensive? Yes. However, there are few things they truly fear, since with a painboy in the unit only a S8 or higher weapon will have a decent chance of killing you (and you still get a 4+ cover or minimum 5+ invulnerable save). I've watched a unit of 6 of these take an entire guard army worth or fire, including the tanks, and lose 3 wounds. Then you hit combat with 5 attacks each as S9 and still T5 with a 4+ armor and FNP.

So, like I said originally, in a unit like one I have described above it makes sense not to give the boss a PK, because you already have plenty.

You ignore my main points in order to address what was merely an aside. A nice trick, but I'm not falling for it.

Try again.

Then allow me to more specifically address your concern. I was not stating that a uge choppa warboss is the one and only way to take care of walkers, I merely offered it as an option when running certain units would make his PK pointless. I don't think that we can overlook 5 attacks (assuming attack squig) at S8 on the charge. As with everything else, if you make units take saves they will fail. Not to mention the fact that you can instant death almost all non MC characters. Are you happier with that response?

Its cheap so arming some nobz in a nobz mob is not too bad a price to pay. They are expensive enough, that adding a 'uge choppa is not too bad an investment where you cannot afford klaws. Especailly on a nobz bike mob, the worst case would be to take neither. at the price you spend you ought to take a 'uge choppa if you dont take the klaw.
The real question is whether you can afford the unit, not the upgrade.

However never take the 'uge choppa on a warboss. The S10 attack is too useful to lose out on.

There are circumstances where its good as a weapon, against high T targets with poor saves, notably other orks. I would favour nobs with 'uge choppa over nobs witrh klaw in ork vs ork games every time. Its an out and out better weapon - unless your opponent fields mega-nobz.
Given forwarning of what your next oponent is, and a tendency to metagame I can see uge choppa not only being used but thriving in an ork slaying niche. Its degfinately not for against all comers lists though and you still will do well to keep the S10 warboss fist, even against ork armies. Orks are short of reliable S10..

Orlanth wrote:
I would favour nobs with 'uge choppa over nobs witrh klaw in ork vs ork games every time. Its an out and out better weapon - unless your opponent fields mega-nobz.

I'd have to disagree. Nobody fields a nob squad without eavy armor and a painboy (because then there's no point in having the nobs) so while you might kill a nob or two, maybe three with uge choppas, the power klaw will not only ignore armor and FNP but instant death every nob they touch. In this situation, the PK is far superior. This is why nob bikers would rather see combat with lightning clawed terminators than regular power fisted ones. I have found the uge choppa worthwhile against things like demon princes and greater demons, who's save is easily failable so more wounds gives you a good chance. They're also good against all infantry, you wound on a 2.

Dakkalad:

Then allow me to more specifically address your concern. I was not stating that a uge choppa warboss is the one and only way to take care of walkers, I merely offered it as an option when running certain units would make his PK pointless. I don't think that we can overlook 5 attacks (assuming attack squig) at S8 on the charge. As with everything else, if you make units take saves they will fail. Not to mention the fact that you can instant death almost all non MC characters. Are you happier with that response?

Yes, much happier, because it didn't take apart a throwaway comment and pretend it was engaging with my argument.

Still, my point remains: you're paying 100+ points for what is in the end still a sub-optimal solution to a problem that does not necessarily need solving. There are better things to do with your points. You can shoot the walker(s), assault them with squads that can spare the ablative bodies (Stormboyz, Trukk mobs), and if all fails, your nobz are on dead speedy bikes and shouldn't be getting mulched by walkers anyway unless you screw up. And you know, even if that happens, what's the consequence? You lose a couple of bikers and turn the walker into scrap. Not a huge net loss.

Of course a bike boss with 'uge choppa has its uses. By and large, though, is it 100+ points (130 with UC, bike, squig, cybork body) of usefulness? 130 pts is just shy of 9 Lootas or Stormboyz. Hell, it's 10 Trukk Boyz and a PK Nob, Trukk included.

Edit: Not to mention that walkers aren't exactly the most common sight in the first place! You do see Dreads from time to time, but I'd bet that out of all the armies with access to Dreads, you'll see more lists that choose not to field them than lists that do.

Different circumstances.

If you take nobz mods you taske a mix of uge choppa and klaws, because of costing.

The second paragraph deals with nobz in ordinary mobz. Normally its klaw every time, vs orks it should be uge choppa every time, unless your opponent has a tendency to field meganobz.

Either way you would on 2+ but the uger choppa is cheaper and strikes first. Good tradefoff against the odd 6+ save being made.

I am not sure about heavy armour for nobz, bikerz get it anyway, foot nobz are primarily powerfist bait. In nobz vs nobz fights the extra 5pts for heavy armour wont count for much, both sides should have 2-3 klaws.

If fopr the sake of argument I had no klaws at all, nobz simply become a shooting target. Uge choppas still mash up the boyz though.

I took a BC warboss to the latest tournament I played in. He was escorted around in a trukk with 3 MA nobs. A pretty fun and useful unit. The S8 on the charge couple with I5 was very useful. While you lose the +1A for extra CCW, 6 on the charge is usually enough to get the job done when facing T4 IC's. They only need to fail one wound and they are toast. I typically used him to engage any IC's that were around while the MAnobs took care of anything else.

Is he more useful then a pk WB on a bike? No. He's 50 points cheaper though and often strikes first or simo.

In my last game vs mech eldar, I was missing the speed of the bike and the power of the klaw definitely. He's fun, but I don't know if he's worth it for a tourney list. Take a biker boss instead.

For he it is about points all the way on the nobs. Of course I slip in a pk here or there but a whole unit of PK nobs is just stupid and a unit without any big CC weapons sucks.

How do you get him to be 50 points cheaper? The claw is 25, the Big Choppa is 5 or 10, can't really remember. Anyway, calling it 5, 25-5=20 points cheaper.

However, your point does stand that if you are going IC hunting, it could be useful, but I still prefer the PK due him probably being able to take 1 round of CC from an IC, and the PK being a more or less auto-death for somebody that can be instant killed.

However, for a nobz mob, it can be ok, because more than 2 or 3 PKs are usually overkill, and it does give you some vehicle killing potential.

It is 5 points. Do you think that since the possable casualty rules could make you nobs vulnerable that the uge choppa may be improved for 5th? Attacking at int 4 st 6 could be a real boone at times.

I would have to give an Uge Choppa to at least one guy, possibly my Warboss, if for no other reason that it looks really cool.

Arglebooster wrote:How do you get him to be 50 points cheaper? The claw is 25, the Big Choppa is 5 or 10, can't really remember. Anyway, calling it 5, 25-5=20 points cheaper.

Wb on bike with pk, attack squig, cybork = 150
Wb on foot with BC, squig, cybork, eavy armour, bosspole (in this config he's with MAN's, hence the bosspole) = 100

150 - 100 = 50 (bike is most of the difference of course)

Arglebooster wrote:However, your point does stand that if you are going IC hunting, it could be useful, but I still prefer the PK due him probably being able to take 1 round of CC from an IC, and the PK being a more or less auto-death for somebody that can be instant killed.

It was useful in the second game I took it because I faced a CSM IC with a force weapon. Since we went simo, they were able to kill each other (as I had charged, the WB ID'd him, but I failed one save). Normally I use the WB as an infantry killer, but I had to take that IC out and he was the best target. Otherwise, he would have targeted the MANs and probably wiped them out. As I posted above, the BC WB is a fun alternative, but the PK Bikerboss is usually a better option.

Wb on bike with pk, attack squig, cybork = 150
Wb on foot with BC, squig, cybork, eavy armour, bosspole (in this config he's with MAN's, hence the bosspole) = 100

150 - 100 = 50 (bike is most of the difference of course)

So what stops one from fielding a PK boss on foot? There's no point comparing the points difference between a foot HC boss with a bike PK boss.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:

So what stops one from fielding a PK boss on foot? There's no point comparing the points difference between a foot HC boss with a bike PK boss.

Because what I was comparing was a WB on foot with BC vs a WB on a bike with a PK.

budro wrote:Is he more useful then a pk WB on a bike? No. He's 50 points cheaper though and often strikes first or simo.

That's why I brought up the 50 point difference. With the limited mobility of a foot boss, giving him a pk restricts him even more in what he may target. He's most likely going to be with a squad (to get a trukk) or he's totaly useless on foot by himself with no ride. You might as well take a Big Mek with a KFF instead. With a squad, it becomes harder to put him in a situation where he will still get his attacks as a competent opponent will merely remove his engagement status before he swings with his pk. On a bike though he's tough enough and fast enough to get to the opposite side of a squad, or even take on small squads by himself, there by guarenteeing that he will swing.

An ‘uge choppa is a decent buy for a nob or boss, if you look at nothing other than what it gives you, and what it costs. It’s just that the powerklaw is a much better buy, it turns a solid model into an excellent one, a useful unit into a game winning one.

Sure, on an independent character tasked to go hunting walkers an ‘uge choppa is probably the better option. But the modest AV of walkers rarely present enough of a danger to ork lists that you need to start committing independent characters to the task, just shoot them with the mass of middle strength guns you’ve got access to.

The two things ork lists typically struggle to crack are monstrous creatures and heavy tanks. Powerklaws are loved by ork players because they are perfectly suited to these problems (and brilliant at a range of other stuff to boot).

So I guess if you’re facing down an army of sentinels or war walkers and for some reason you don’t want to take looterz, then the ‘uge choppa becomes pretty sensible. It also looks cool, and can be really flavourful for certain builds. So there are reasons to take it. But it just isn’t a sensible tactical option for a general purpose army.