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Let's say a vehicle moved 6" with passengers inside. On the other players turn a lascannon hits it and scores a penetrating hit. Rolls a 4. Vehicle is destroyed.

Other player rolls 10 dice for the 10 passengers inside and 4 are wounded. 1 dies.

Now my question is that the passengers deploy where? Anywhere within 2" of the vehicle exists? Or do they appear inside the vehicle wreck (In cover)?

I played a game where my opponent deployed behind the wreck after their transport was blown up. Which is correct?

You have to deploy from the vehicle while it is still a vehicle (wrecks don't have access points). Thus you can't put your units on top of the vehicle when bailing out.

So the passengers inside a vehicle that exploded can deploy behind it and take cover behind the wreck as area terrain?

Wrecks are not area terrain. See page 21. You can shoot "over or past" them, just like you can while they're alive.

But yes, as long as the troops deploy out from the hatches, they can certainly huddle around the wreck and probably (depending on the firer's position) get cover from it. It's 4+ cover too, per the cover chart.

shoot "over past" them, but not through them?

So since a vehicle is size 3, you'd have to be on a hill or taller to shoot over past vehicle wrecks?

While vehicles are size 3, for shooting over or past them, dead or alive, you use their acutal physical profile, ie model's eye view. Only times the size 3 comes into play is if they are behind area terrain, then you determine if they can be seen by the size of the area terrain, ie size 1 or 2, you see them, size 3 you don't. Or walkers in hth block LOS based on size of largest model in combat, so a combat involving a walker would block LOS at size 3.

It looks like you guys are wrong. Read the rules for wrecks. "It continues to block line of sight as if it were intact..." You can't shoot through something you can't draw LOS through.

Asmodeus wrote:It looks like you guys are wrong. Read the rules for wrecks. "It continues to block line of sight as if it were intact..." You can't shoot through something you can't draw LOS through.

Course, if you can see over it........................ Real model LOS, not size 3.

Asmodeus
how bout a little piss in your vinegar...
skimmers don't block LOS
that being said how can it continue to block LOS if it never blocked LOS to begin with?

paidinfull wrote:Asmodeus
how bout a little piss in your vinegar...
skimmers don't block LOS
that being said how can it continue to block LOS if it never blocked LOS to begin with?

Easy. The rule says "as if it were intact" - not "as if it were mobile". It's on the ground (and wrecked) therefore not mobile. A non-mobile skimmer on the ground blocks LOS because it looses it's skimmer status.

Exocorp and Asmodeus, is might help you to read this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Line_of_Sight_and_the_Magic_Cylinder

Mannahnin wrote:Exocorp and Asmodeus, is might help you to read this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Line_of_Sight_and_the_Magic_Cylinder

Thanks Mannahnin. My group plays with the magical cylinder. There are no subjective views or arguments and it speed the game along, as your article points out. We generally play friendly, but there are the occasional grudge matches.

I find magic cylinder players annoying, especially when they try to insist that their interpretation is based on the RAW. If you want to play with that as a local convention fine, but its quite simply a house rule.

I've also yet to find a magic cylinder player who'll agree that a two rhinos can block LOS to a monolith. Or that if I put three cyclops demo vehicles in a row, they block LOS to a land raider.

Essentially, playing with the magic cylinder is a way to handicap the game against armies that have long-ranged shooting, generally to the advantage of assault-based armies.

Centurian99 wrote:I find magic cylinder players annoying

And I find obnoxious that think they know everything annoying. The reason why we use magic cylinder was stated above. It streamlines the game and makes it go faster. This is nice, since there are already enough rules to squabble about until you're blue in the face.

Asmodeus wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:I find magic cylinder players annoying

And I find obnoxious that think they know everything annoying. The reason why we use magic cylinder was stated above. It streamlines the game and makes it go faster. This is nice, since there are already enough rules to squabble about until you're blue in the face.

Like I said, magic cylinder players bias the game against long-ranged shooting armies like Guard. And I notice you didn't address any of the absurd situations that arise, like having rhinos block LOS to monoliths, etc.

Magic cylinder is fine for a house rule, but if I'm travelling to a tournament somewhere, unless its stated otherwise by the organizers, I expect the rules to be followed.

Well, regardless the magic cylinder looks to be completely dead in 5th edition so perhaps the great debate will finally be resolved!

We can only hope...

yakface wrote:
Well, regardless the magic cylinder looks to be completely dead in 5th edition so perhaps the great debate will finally be resolved!

Only to be replaced by a new 'great debate'

Wait, there are rules debates in 40k?

Say it ain't so!

You guys do know that blown up vehicles can actually be size 2 or size 3, as defined in the terrain table, right?

Oops sorry just throwing in my fun wrench.

Of course they'll only be size 1 if a Titan steps on them

It looks like you guys are wrong. Read the rules for wrecks. "It continues to block line of sight as if it were intact..." You can't shoot through something you can't draw LOS through.

No one said they could. They said they could shoot "over" or "around" based on model's eye view, which is in the rules.

So unless of course I am missing a post that was before your reply that was deleted or removed you have some apologies to hand out.

As for the magic cylinder thing... meh.

Pass out the rusty spoons...

My problem with the pure physical LoS view is the overall inconsistency in GW model scale. Take the rhino for example, it obviously does not fit 10 marines in it yet it can transport them in the game. When you take the physical model as a strict LoS guideline it opens up a whole new realm of modeling possibilities designed to exploit LoS(AKA the kneeling wraithlord)

yakface wrote:
Well, regardless the magic cylinder looks to be completely dead in 5th edition so perhaps the great debate will finally be resolved!

so are we going to have people shoot between a dread's legs then? Or is it base size and height of model that determines when LOs is blocked? (I suppose I play Magic cylinder light after reading the article). I find it, hm, annoying when people want to shoot between the legs of the Killer Kans.

We're off topic here. You want to talk Magic Cylinder, make a new thread with a warning in the subject line.

I'll post my dreadnought pic again, I swear. (RAR!).