Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

DP-Wings, MoT, Warptime

Sorcerer-Bike, MoS, LoS(wow big surprise)

5 Chosen-Las, 2 Plas, IoCG(this is up for discussion, I had everything I wanted in the list and had 168 pts so...eh)

10 Noise Marines-10 SB, Champ w/ PF-Rhino

8 Thousand Sons-Sorcerer w/ Doombolt

8 Thousand Sons-Sorcerer w/ Doombolt

8 Thousand Sons-Sorcerer w/ Doombolt

2 Obliterators

2 Obliterators

Predator-Autocannon Turret, Hvy Bolter Sponsons, Havoc

I have always been a fan of shooting on the move thus I am quite happy w/ this. It's not a Lash army but, to play Chaos w/o Lash is like playing Tau w/o Crisis Suits or Eldar w/o Falcons. We play w/ the toys GW gives us. I could use the MOST help w/ the 160 something odd points I had left over. Four generic Terms w/ lots of Combi and PFs would be ok I guess, or 4 Terms w/o any Combi(dreaded thought) and like one PF and IoT/IoS to keep the theme going or somthing I dunno. This is where I'm open to ANY comments.

PS. I'm not an idoit, so comments like, "Tanks are bad!" can seriously be left out. If you have an interest in helping me great. If you're spending more time reading about how the game plays rather than actually playtesting EVERYTHING under the sun, don't waste time posting.

To Stelek-I finally played my friend w/ YOUR mech Eldar and a list quite similar to this. We had a very close draw that was nearly in his favor. Then he played HIS Eldar w/ Warpspiders, Vibrocannons, and just about every single Eldar model that isn't seen mainstream, he wrecked my ass w/o lube. I agree the Mech stuff is annoying to keep up w/ but it was incredibly unstable. 2 cents, thats all.

Seems a waste not to to give the DP a shooting power, since he can use two a turn. 10 points for a BS5 Doombolt? Why not?

Does the Sorc need the bike? I imagine he'll hugging the TSons (joining them in 5th?) and zooming forward to intercept units that get close or reinforce a squad that's been assaulted. For that, a jump pack (or, for the same price as the bike, a cool Disc of Tzeentch) will suffice and could actually be better since you can jump over your own guys to get there.

What's the Rhino for? Noise Marines do fine walking, especially with all SBs. I'd say they're pretty much designed for it.

I don't see those Chosen accomplishing much. 5 guys with a heavy, two specials and an Icon? A lot of toys that won't take much killing at all. Maybe if they had just the las I might ignore them. Honestly, I think you'd be better off just dropping them entirely and getting another 2 Oblits. Your list is worryingly short of AT for 2k and one Chosen las/plas won't help much.

I don't think anyone would argue with the fact that an anti-troop Chaos Pred is cost-effective anti-horde, at least in 5th. It's good stuff.

On another note, I'm not necessarily defending Stelek, but the fact that you used his Eldar list and drew with your friend and your friend used his own Eldar list and stomped you doesn't necessarily say anything about Stelek's list. . . .

Your friend would have to play you with Stelek's list also to really get a good feel for how it does. I mean, while I disagree with Stelek, fair is fair ya know.

My Eldar list requires alot of experience with all armies and a very large amount of playtime with the Eldar list.

I've been playing Eldar since they came out, and play/own every other army.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to get a predator and chosen, when NM and oblits do those jobs better.

TC, you leave the sorc in your squads in 5th and let him chew things up when the enemy comes to you. He's quite safe in a TS squad. Having warptime as backup so he kills 3-4 guys a turn will become commonplace IMO.

A bike gives him +1T, as well as mobility.

Okay, I guess I can explain things.

The DP in all my experience has not made it to combat much. This in not b/c "I don't know how to use him", it is b/c I play intelligent people. Sinking 175 points into already hurts and adding anymore is taking points away from an already tight list. Doombolt would be an ok option I suppose at 10 points. I'll give it a whirl.

The noise marines on foot are like handing 300 points to my opponent. After/if the DP drops, the noise marines become target number 2 due to the fact that people just don't like wasting there bullets on the brick wall of 1k sons. I'm not saying the rhino is going to make or break the game, I'm saying it gives them 36in shots on the first turn and a mobile wall. I have been running them on foot and they are VERY swing or miss. They kill nothing or they kill a lot. I just feel the rhino is going to be needed for its ability to line of sight many bullets coming at my NON invulnerable units.

The Sorcerer on a bike is fragile. I takes more thought planning his moves than it does to play the rest of the army. I have not seen much, aside from rumors, about 5th. But if I throw him a 1k sons unit that rarely has line of sight of important targets, that kinda wastes the Lash don't you think? The ability to get behind a gunline as quickly as a bike can is undeniable. Note: I play against Tau and Freaky Eldar a lot.

The chosen were added cause points were left. I have had much sucess w/ Chosen IF, and only IF, infiltration is used. In all honesty I think making the Obliterators 2X3 will probably be what I will do for the lack of argument. However, if you do not put an IoCG on ANY unit that isn't cult, you are a fool. Chaos units are not big and the can't turn around below 50% so them breaking isn't an option. The 5 man las double plas takes LD for every one model lost and my dice are terrible. The icon is for the re-roll, not the teleport homer.

As for the comment for Steleks Mech Eldar, I was NOT bashing it in any way. I was stating how my army did against it(this is what Stelek wanted me to tell him). I understand it is HIS list and he would play it at max potential however my friend played it quite well. We spent over an hour just discussing it b/c it looked a little odd on paper so we talked each other through it. Also me mentioning my friend rolling me afterwards w/ his army, was just saying that he plays the most interesting armies. I mean honestly, who beats people w/ an army that does NOT have a single gun above Str 6?? My guy does.

Anyway I'll post a revised version of the original post immediatly following this post w/ actual point costs and whatnot.

Thank you for the comments thus far!

Revised-

DP-Wings, MoT, Warptime, Doombolt - 185

Sorcerer-Bike, MoS, LoS - 155

10 Noise Marines-10 SB, Champ w/ PF, Rhino - 325(unit-290)

8 Thousand Sons-Sorcerer w/ Doombolt - 254

8 Thousand Sons-Sorcerer w/ Doombolt - 254

8 Thousand Sons-Sorcerer w/ Doombolt - 254

3 Obliterators - 225

3 Obliterators - 225

Predator-Autocannon Turret, Hvy Bolter Sponsons, Havoc - 115

Total - 1992

I'm not saying the rhino is going to make or break the game, I'm saying it gives them 36in shots on the first turn and a mobile wall.

What it really gives you is two choices:

1) Deploy in the Rhino. Lose first turn? Rhino blows up, Noise Marines take casualties and are Entangled. Lose one turn of movement.

2) Deploy outside of the Rhino. On your turn, embark on the Rhino, move 12"--whoops, now you can't disembark, since you embarked on the same turn. You get a few shots out of the hatch. Yay! On your opponent's turn, Rhino blows up, NMs take casualties and are Entangled. Net movement gain: nil.

Your coveted turn 1 36" shooting requires you deploy in the Rhino and win first turn. That's a huge risk to take.

If you just want to use the Rhino as a wall from the very beginning, fair enough, I guess. If so, you might as well give it the extra bolter with your spare points.

Not hard to hide ONE rhino...

*shrugs*

If you're hiding the Rhino, you're not really getting 36" range first turn shooting, are you? You usually can't deploy at max range and still be hidden. (Unless, of course, you cunningly deploy a big hill or something in the middle of the board during terrain set-up.) Once you have to deploy 6" or more back (okay, maybe 8"--you do get another 2" from disembarking if you turn the Rhino first), you've lost all the range/movement gained.

Also, you should be hiding that demon prince instead of a rhino I would think.

Lots of ado about nothing in the Rhino's case. Rhinos are better point expenditures than 1.5 noise marines, right? No need to think any further than that. It's an unassailable expenditure in terms of being a separate target, messing with LOS and tank shocking, even if the Noise Marines never get anywhere near it.

The only real argument vs. putting Rhinos in any units that can have them is that if the unit is already min points and you don't want to put more points in or if you are worried about Escalation. Neither seems to apply in this case.

My biggest issue with this list is the 3 units of Ksons. Ksons are anti-marine units par excellance, but other than that they don't have much to do. Many armies will make you pay for putting so many points into AP3 bolters, whether that's by presenting a solid front of AV 12 or swamping you with a million 6+ savers. I've had good success with one unit of Ksons, but it seems like 3 is perhaps overdoing it?

Also, the same logic that says to put a rhino with your Noise Marines says that the Ksons should have one. They are better than 1.5 ksons, and you can (rarely) actually get some transport out of them for a unit that has difficulty getting anywhere.

Also, I'm not sure he should be hiding his Prince. Seems like his primary concern is going to be making the enemy not direct s8 or > AP2 weapons at his oblits, and a big ole' Tzeentchian fighty flying Prince ought to soak that manner of firepower up exquisitely.

A Rhino as a 35 pt LoS-blocker, tank shocker and pew-pew bolter is great. A Rhino as a transport is (usually) not, so if that's his plan, he may want to reconsider. That's all I'm saying.

40kenthusiast

Thank you for not being an asshat and dwelling on ONE rhino. I like the idea of less sons as it is a huge point sink. What are your thoughts on Gift of Chaos on the DP or maybe even in general?

I played in a local tourney Saturday w/ this army and it did "Okay" I went 2-1 w/ 33 battle points. Nothing to brag about but not bad.

I want to make some LARGE changes and also get it back down to 1850. The core will be the DP(175pt version), 6 Obliterators, and 2x10 sons in rhinos. I would like to try Ahriman for fun and would also try to get the Noise Marines back in.

Hit me with some thoughts.

Thank you for not being an asshat and dwelling on ONE rhino.

you too. Maybe next time you should annotate your army list ("This unit is too trivial to be worth commenting on; don't bother or I will call you an asshat").

@JustDave: chill boy, just chill

the reason ONE rhino is a big deal is that it is only ONE rhino. when you have transports like that you need to have around three or more so that the enemy cannot simply pound you, kill one and you've lost all your mobility. in my chaos is use 4 and usually don't have a hard time hiding them. one gets popped turn one, the rest zoom up and let my men out, then roll around tank shocking and generally being a nuisance. you should look into having more vehicles or all the enemy anti tank will be poured into the pred and that, and they will die turn 1-2, but most likely turn 1