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HQ

Sorcerer: Wings, MoS, Lash 145

Demon Prince, MoT, Wings, Warptime, Wind of Chaos 215


Elites

5 Terminators, MoT, Reaper, powerfist 220


Troops

8 Noisemarines, 8 Sonic Blasters 220

8 Noisemarines, 8 Sonic Blasters 220


Fast Attack

6 Raptors: 2x melta, aspiring, power fist 180


Heavy

2 Obliterator 150

2 Obliterator 150


Total: 1500

2 HQ, 1 Elites, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack, 2 Heavy, 0 Demons.



At the moment I own most of this aside from the Noisemarines (who I want for my army regardless) and 2 oblits. The list is playing friendly at the moment, but I'd like it to be reasonably competitive.

As I'm sure you're aware, those Chosen are pointless. How about dropping one sonic blaster and taking three Termies with combi-weapons? They can DS in off the Raptors.

I absolutely agree with Cromis.
Drop the Chosen and take a small Termie squad with combi-plasmas.

I just used a similar (havocs replace three oblits, not as useful) list against Tyranids in a take and hold game and have some changes I'd like to make. The chosen performed well as fire support against some weaker bugs, but three Terminators sounds interesting, the thing I like about the chosen is infiltrate, which helped a lot in defending one objective. I was thinking about dropping the Blastmasters (against Nids because of no pinning, or so I'm told) and grabbing another chosen and some weapons for them perhaps?

Any input on the Demon Prince? He got caught up in a group of upgraded genestealers who took him to town, perhaps repurpose him or move his points?

I am not hugely impressed with Blastmasters, but I don't think lack of Pinning against 'nids is a good reason to drop them. If you bought them because of Pinning in the first place, you didn't buy them for a good reason IMO, because Pinning in general is weak as hell (barring extremes like Tau Sniper Drone armies) against almost every army. The question you need to ask yourself is whether 40 points is worthwhile for an assault 2 HB or a blast krak missile. Leave Pinning out of the equation.

There is nothing wrong with your DP. The problem is the Genestealers. Pretty much no MC (or IC, for that matter) should be tangling with those guys. Keep him; just learn how to use him.

drop the blastmaster and chosen for sure and pick up that last sonic blaster. the drop in points will allow for you to grab a bunch of termies. i'd say you could get 5-6 termies with MoS and some other weapon upgrades then.

Yes, unfortunately Possessed are completely useless now. I hate the new codex...

Sorry, Chosen not possessed. But they are pretty usless as well. I agree with the users suggesting termies.

I've edited my first post, took out the Blastmasters, one Melta from the Raptors and the Chosen Squad and added:

4 Terminators, MoT, 4 Combi Plasma 175

Is this a decent swap? Would a Reaper be better? Claws? 5 points left over. I intend to deep strike them in in front of any of the other squads that need heavy melee support (secondary role) or could use a shooting shield (primary role).

Also, I have the old metal Terminators (2nd edition you will be missed), any hints on conversion?

i like the list this way. if you could russle up pts i'd go for a few more termies. other than that looks good to me

I'm thinking about the Melta/raptor sutuation, is one or two best? I could drop an Obliterator and have enough for an extra Terminator or two, or perhaps a Reaper/claws, are they best used at range or in close? (can they stand up to Genestealers?)

Two meltas. One is not reliable enough. By RAW they keep their BP + CCW when theyt ake the melta, so that's not a concern.

Nothing in the Chaos army can stand up to genestealers. That's what your guns are for.

keep termies with regular power weapons and then make better guns for them to kill everything they can't in CC

Bastirous666 wrote:keep termies with regular power weapons and then make better guns for them to kill everything they can't in CC

Okay, that sounds reasonable, are there any races I'd reconsider combi-plasma against? I usually like to include one combi-flamer to defend against swarms being sent in to waste my time.

Combi-plasma is almost universally useful. t's fine, I think.

Also, and I'm sorry I didn't mention this earlier, the IoTz is a bad deal with only four Termies. The per unit cost is too high. In fact, I wouldn't take four Termies at all. I would suggest either three with combi-weapons as a disposable spot-cleaning squad or 6+ with an Icon as more of a mainstay unit.

Anywhere else you'd stick the 70 points you save from a 3 termi no icon squad? I had 4 as they're a more robust scoring unit then, but with such a small size I see how it could be less of a difference. Perhaps drop one oblit and expand the squad to 6?

Any word on easy methods to convert to plasma?

Yeah, it's not much of a difference in such a small squad.

I don't know if you can afford to drop an Oblit. In fact, I would be tempted to drop one sonic blaster as well, giving you you just enough to add an Oblit. It's not exactly the most exciting option, though! If you love Termies (like I do) and think three Oblits will be sufficient for the opponents you play, then the 6-man squad you speak of would also be fine. I would be more inclined, in that case, to have them walk rather than DS, give them a Reaper and one PF, and drop the combi-weapons.

You could also look at trimming the Raptor squad if you want to get more points to play with. They can definitely do without the IoK--30 points for 7 normal attacks (assuming, unrealistically, that they'll always take no casualties at all before getting into CC) and one PW attack is not great considering that 40 points would get you 6 normal attacks (on the charge) and two extra bodies. (If you do keep the IoK, then I would suggest perhaps switching the LCs for a PF. You are a bit short on high Str CC.)

I've seen simple conversions where you just cut up a plasma pistol and mount it under the TL bolter. If I see a tutorial, I'll be sure to let you know, but it looked pretty commonsensical/easy to figure out to me.

the best way to model the combi plasma i saw was take the combi flamer and replace the whole flamer nozel with a plasma pistol front. it also looks better if you take the bayonet off of the combiflamer as that just looks stupid.

Indeed I do like terminators, I've come to this, just need to lose 10 points (6 points? is it 1504 usually?), maybe by two sonic blasters? either that or the termis power fist, or doombolt from the prince.

Edit: Didn't realise you'd edited the original post, hence my confusion. Will think about it and reply properly later.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Edit: Didn't realise you'd edited the original post, hence my confusion. Will think about it and reply properly later.

Whoops, thoughts never made it to keyboard, because I meant to point that out! Cheers, I think this list is starting to look quite reasonable, I can't wait to give it a go.

Edit:

I've fixed up the list, changed Doombolt to Wind of Chaos for some extra horde control and dropped a terminator to keep the raptors with 2 meltas and a powerfist