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Thought hit me out of nowhere, thought I would share it wth you guys. Semi-competative, incredible composition. *shrug*

HQ-DP w/ Wings
130

HQ-DP w/ Wings
130

Elite-7 Terminators w/ IoCG/2 PF/5 Combi-Plas
265

Troops-10 Chaos Marines w/ IoCG/Las/Plas
195

Troops-10 Chaos Marines w/ IoCG/Las/Plas
195

Troops-10 Chaos Marines w/ IoCG/2Melta/Champ w/ PF
220

Troops-10 Chaos Marines w/ IoCG/2Melta/Champ w/ PF
220

Heavy-3 Obliterators
225

Fast-10 Raptors w/ IoCG/2 Melta/Champ w/ Lightnning Claws
270

2 HQ, 1 Elite, 4 Troops, 1 Heavy, 1 Fast-62 models

1850 total

Lots of models, but semi-competitive.
The HQs need psychic powers. Give them the (broken) lash.
Cult units are better than normal CSM troops.
The Raptors are fine, but 2x2 Obliterators would serve you better.

'm definitely commenting on the rhino guys. why not throw another meltagun in there, that way they can get two shots before running up to something to blow it up (obviously a tank). also why buy the champ meltabombs and a PF, that makes no sense, he only needs the meltabombs to pop tanks, and then he could get the less expensive power weapon to then get the 10pts needed to buy another meltagun. makes more sense to me!

Why would he need lash?

Lash is good if you have vindicators, and so, but if not you dont really need to pay for it, why move the unit if you are just going to head straight? its 50 points he saves, plus if he fights either nids, eldar, SM its a loose of points.

I agree on the obliterators, take either 1 or 2 units of 2, not one of three nor one.

10 raptors maybe too much ill take 3 out, plus another 15 points to make the 4th obliterator.

throw off 1 of the 250troop units (i know you said not to coment, i like the unit but i rather take what i suggest) , with those points you can make a 10 bersekers units with chap, meltabombs and reliq=250 points

the other 2 10 man take them off too, and add in 8 T-sons, with sorcerer with the S4 AP3 power and reliq for 259 points which leaves you 131 points.

6 CSM/ chap with PF = 131

you can throw out 1 berserers which gives you 21 points for a melta rifle, and IoCG on the last unit

you will loose on the change about 10 models but you will gain more CC, shoot power, and survivality

i have to agree with kaintxu on his assesment

You are all asshats! Just kidding. I do like some of the ideas about dropping rhinos. That was quoted from someone and I simply did what he said. I do now realize the retardism of the Champ w/ PF and meltabombs(oops). I don't want ANY cult units or Icons of cult units. The idea is to be very "Vanilla". I also agree that splitting up the Obliterators into either 3 units of 1 or trimming points for 2 units of 2 would be more "effective" but again I'm in love w/ the composition.

On the note of, CSM squads are bad, I think people should really stop and think. Regular Space Marines are the army everyone compares things to. The only negative difference is that we, DO INDEED, know fear. Aside from that, we have higher leadership, a larger unit cap(rarely used but none the less), and the "uber" grit(Bolter,BP,CCW). That alone puts us AT LEAST on par. I agree that our cult units are better but you absolutely pay for it in points. Excluding regular CSM from an army because they are BAD is simply unintelligent.

Thanks for all the comments.

i love the basic CSM, in fact my word bearers use not one cult marine of any kind, my men are all pure blood undivided followers, who know fear, and just are really unlikely to run due to it. i say keeping the cult marines out is fine, it also means you'll have more in the end, which is pretty darn good to me