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I spent some time searching my codex and my BGB but cannot find the answer to this question. On the website where you can order Abaddon, it says that he may be included as an HQ for an army of 2000 points or more.

Does this mean he cannot be fielded in a game of lesser point value?

Only if you're still using the last version of the Chaos Codex.

Just another example of GW not updating their website properly. There is no such restriction under the current Codex.

Okay, good to know. Now I just need to figure out the best way to kill Abaddon, since that means a friend of mine will be fielding him and some terminators in a small scale battle (with two units of noise marines for compulsory).

:(

Easiest way to fight that is simply to not allow characters, especially in smaller games where they tend to overpower.

Dakkaladd wrote:Easiest way to fight that is simply to not allow characters, especially in smaller games where they tend to overpower.

Agreed, however, in a smaller game, if the guy is actually paying the 275 points for an HQ choice, let him gimp himself.

That said, don't be a whiny little if he fields Abaddon. Figure out a way to drop him and you'll be good to go. My personal favorite is all brightlances targeting him or the retinue he's attached to.

Point-for-point, Genestealers eat Abaddon for lunch.

He's also a pure footslogger, so if you just feed him a craptastic troops choice to slow him down for 1 turn and run off with whatever else you've got, he's going to be doing LOL for damage.

So I shouldn't be afraid of Abaddon? That's good to know.

He's going to field him in a Terminator squad, and that scares my poor little orks.

I suggest you create a topic on the Tactics forum. This rules thread is pretty much done.

Well, aside from the point that Abaddon is no longer "by permission only" - in response to Dakkalad. So I guess you can exclude it, just like he could exclude your using a farseer or any other baseline troop.

Personally, I preferred it when special characters were bypermission only, but that's gone now.

Stealers don't eat Abaddon for lunch in 5th.

He's quite the badass, actually.

He is a badass, but I'm pretty sure close to 300 points worth of stealers would eat him for lunch.

Method of killing aba is easy, its called The Lord Of Death

One in six times (on average) they would win. The other five times he would wreck them. How many Stealers is that? He can kill up to 10 a turn. Also, are they fearless, on their own? If not, then when they break and run he'll probably run them down also.

Without upgrades, it'd be 17 stealers and they strike simultaneously.

So first off, having 17 stealers running into Abaddon is almost impossible.

Second, in 5th all you do is stick Abaddon with a unit and those stealers will never kill him.

He will, however, kill endless amounts of them.

My mathhammer is rusty - how many genestealers would be within striking range, assuming no terrain blocking them?

Practicalities make a difference as well - at any given time most of the genestealers will not be on top of him, because if they charge it they probably will not all surround him, and if he charges them they certainly will not.

Besides, you're talking one of the nastiest combat units - try 300 points of just about anything else, and Abba beats it (I think). Maybe this would be a fun contest - What can beat Abba, point for point?

How many attacks do Genes have, and are they fearless?

Dakkaladd wrote:Easiest way to fight that is simply to not allow characters, especially in smaller games where they tend to overpower.

That's how it used to be, but is that the general rule now? GW used to have a huge bias against their own special characters (you couldn't use them in Tournament games, you couldn't use them unless you've Ok'd it with your opponent beforehand). In the old system, the assumed state of being was that you couldn't use Special Characters, unless you and your opponent decide to make an exception.

But now days, it seems the bias is switched. Isn't the assumed state now that you can use any up to date Special Characters? (I have heard that this is due to SC minis selling poorly over the last decade or so).

There are no more "Special Characters" in the new codexes. There are simply characters that are legitimate HQ choices. Opponent's permission is not needed for them any more than permission to play any other unit from the codex.

Democratus wrote:There are no more "Special Characters" in the new codexes. There are simply characters that are legitimate HQ choices. Opponent's permission is not needed for them any more than permission to play any other unit from the codex.

True enough. It just makes me sad to see eldar vs eldar games where Eldrad is on both sides *sigh*.

You can always tell your friend not to be a tool taking the freakin head of the Black Legion in a 1,000 point game.

Or play an objective based game, kill the terminators and the Noise Marines and call it a day.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

You could also tell your friend not to be a tool taking Harlies or Terminators or Librarians or Conscripts or anything else in his codex. If you do, though, the tool won't be your opponent.

Democratus wrote:There are no more "Special Characters" in the new codexes.

Yes there are. Any character entry with an individual name, which represents a specific, unique individual is a special character.

Page 52 of the rulebook explains what a Special Character is. Requiring permission is something that is listed as applying to some characters... but isn't something that specifically makes them a special character.

If we only consider rending attacks:
We need 48 attacks, for 8 rends, to get 4 past the 4+ inv. So 16 genestealers on the charge would be statistically equivalent.

Regular attacks are so unlikely to get through that its almost not worth calculating. (1/54 per attack, to be precise).

16 EC genestealers are 320 points. If they don't have EC (does anybody not take EC) its only 256.

Yeah, in 4th. In 5th, they certainly don't eat him for lunch...

1/2 attacks hit, and 1/6 hits rend, so we need 12 attacks to rend once, 24 to deal a wound via rending, so 96 attacks required in 5th...

So, now we need 32 Genestealers to charge Abbaddon. 640 points with EC, 512 without.

There is stuff that can 1-turn him...a flyrant with the right upgrades shouldn't have a problem doing so.

Centurian99 wrote:There is stuff that can 1-turn him...a flyrant with the right upgrades shouldn't have a problem doing so.

And costs about the same, isn't guaranteed to kill him...and Abaddon on average dice annihilates Tyrants...and in the end, the Tyrant won't ever go first, so even if you kill him your Tyrant dies.

Actually, theoryhammer says that the flyrant (~80% of the points cost) likely kills abaddon and lives, if the flyrant charges.

Hive Tyrant /w 2x scytal, Acid Maw, Adrenal Glands (WS & I), Implant Attacks, toxic miasma, toxin sacs, wings, warp field.

Flyrant and abaddon strike simo.

Abbadon gets 7.5 attacks. 3.75 hits, 3.65 wounds, 3.04 wounds.

Flyrant gets 6 attacks, 4 hits, 3.56 wounds, 1.78 wounds past Abaddon's invulnerable. As long as two wounds get past the invulnerable, Abaddon's toast.

Since this isn't how this combat works in 5th, what's the point again?

Stelek wrote:Since this isn't how this combat works in 5th, what's the point again?

ya about that how will ICs work in close combat in 5th?

Centurian99 wrote:Actually, theoryhammer says that the flyrant (~80% of the points cost) likely kills abaddon and lives, if the flyrant charges.

Hive Tyrant /w 2x scytal, Acid Maw, Adrenal Glands (WS & I), Implant Attacks, toxic miasma, toxin sacs, wings, warp field.

Flyrant and abaddon strike simo.

Abbadon gets 7.5 attacks. 3.75 hits, 3.65 wounds, 3.04 wounds.

Flyrant gets 6 attacks, 4 hits, 3.56 wounds, 1.78 wounds past Abaddon's invulnerable. As long as two wounds get past the invulnerable, Abaddon's toast.

Gotta dispute the theoryhammer too.

WS6 vs WS6 is not 4 hits off 6 attacks.

It's 3.

Did you calculate in Abaddon's re-rolling of wounds? Not sure what the descending number of wounds is representing.
Also, it's a 50 point difference.

Considering how Abaddon demolishes Genestealers and Carnifexes far better than Tyrants (or anyone else in his price range or in the game, really, except Nightbringer I guess) I don't think those extra 50 points are poorly spent when very few characters or character killers can even damage him.

Not saying he's invulnerable, of course--he can die in one round to a Flyrant like anybody else. He is a badass though.