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As I was reading about 5th Edition, a few of the possible rules stuck out for me:

1. Forced March
2. Screening
3. All units have the old Counter-charge

All these things seem to point to that the "Silly" WitchHunter units might get much better:

A. Sister Repentia: With Holy Rage and Forced march, they can fly across the board (6"+d6 in movement, d6 in shooting). Screening with Zealots (from the White Dwarf Article) will now be possible and with the automatic counter charge, their attacks will no longer be mostly be wasted on the charge.

B. Arco-Flagellants: They can now be screened and with forced march, they can save the implant injectors until they are about to charge.

C. Penitent Engines: Vehicles have gotten tougher, Holy Rage and Forced March on walkers means an average of 13" a turn, plus there will be less heavy weapons on the battlefield.

While they still will not be the "Bee's Knees," they don't look like they will be so horrible anymore.

Of course, all those models are still metal and it would cost a pretty penny to field...

A. Sister Repentia: With Holy Rage and Forced march, they can fly across the board (6"+d6 in movement, d6 in shooting). Screening with Zealots (from the White Dwarf Article) will now be possible and with the automatic counter charge, their attacks will no longer be mostly be wasted on the charge.

The Run rule will be a blessing, but the basic problem remains: too few attacks for too high a price, going last and with little durability. 6 Repentia and their Mistress charge 10 basic CSMs (not that one sees basic CSMs very often these days)--what happens? The Mistress averages 0.67 kills, the CSMs strike back and kill 3.11 Repentia, and the Repentia finally strike and kill 2.41 CSMs. Net gain: 0.

B. Arco-Flagellants: They can now be screened and with forced march, they can save the implant injectors until they are about to charge.

Screening is pointless. Their save is already invulnerable. [Edit: Whoops, I thought you were talking about giving them a cover save rather than blocking them entirely. My bad.] The run rule helps, but is it enough to make them viable? Doesn't seem like it to me.

C. Penitent Engines: Vehicles have gotten tougher, Holy Rage and Forced March on walkers means an average of 13" a turn, plus there will be less heavy weapons on the battlefield.

How do you figure that PEngines have gotten tougher? So long as you can pen them easily and they don't have cover, they're still just as vulnerable. The movement is a boost though, no doubt.

If you run 9 engies it would be scary.

However, I see most armies dropping plasmaguns for meltaguns and that means against marine armies you have:

PF + meltagun on 5 marines plus a lascannon in the rear means 8-12 units to shoot at you...and because the engines are so large you cannot screen them from fire.

Lots of other armies have S6 or better weapons to spam you with, and those blow you up. Add in heavy weapons and the fact you don't have much else in your army and almost certainly nothing requiring heavy weapons...

===========

If the repentia cost a bit less they'd be better. If they had 'holy spasm' or something like it, which was just catalyst in disguise...they'd be worthwhile. As it is, they are horrible. Remember also that Zealots are illegal in GW tournaments now.

Arcos can be screened, but so can death cult assassins and they are IMO better units and also alot easier to screen.

Another thing to take into account is that the run rule (forced march) gives you 1d6 extra inches of movement in the shooting phase, but it also prevents you from assaulting in the assault phase (unless you have fleet). So while the circus units can move faster in their initial movement phases, they will have to go without running on the turn they want to assault.

I've heard conflicting rumors on how screening is going to work. The initial pdf release says that units in front block line of sight to units behind them. More recent, but less founded, rumors say that units in front will just give cover saves to the ones behind them. So how the rules actually work will make a big difference.

All in all though, I don't have high hopes for these units. They are just too expensive for their ability. Although repentia might move up to not being the worst unit in the game anymore.

Yea, I see the Run rule preventing the Repentia and Penitents from getting shot at for an extra turn, but that is it. It might make Penitents more usable, since it would be movement you could use to pop them into cover or behind a building after they charge forward in the open. I don't know that the repentia would benefit quite so much.

It will be really nice for the assassins, since it will let them redeploy a bit better. It is always a tad frustrating to have them crush a unit, only to find the main battle has moved to the far side of the board, leaving them to hoof it across.

.... ok went off and found a copy of the new rules ... so basicly my wrathguard now get a d6" extra movement (?!?!) if they don't shoot (shooting range 12")and i can screen them off from attack with a unit of guardians (?!?!?) ... i think these new rules need hell of a lot of tweeking

....also snipers now get rending as standard? scary

best new rule GW add is this one

"DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Sometimes a unit entry in a Codex book will
include a transport option, allowing a vehicle
to be selected together with the unit. These
transport vehicles are known as Dedicated
Transports. Their great advantage is that they
do not use up a slot of the Force
Organisation Chart, but they are normally
lightly armed and armoured. Other heavier,
more powerful vehicles may also have a
transport capacity, but such vehicles are
chosen separately and occupy a Force
Organisation chart slot of their own (for
example, the mighty Space Marine Land
Raiders).
The only limitation of a dedicated transport is
that when it is deployed it can only carry the
unit it was selected with (plus any
independent characters). After the game
begins, it can then transport any friendly
infantry unit, subject to transport capacity
and other special exclusions, as explained in
the vehicle’s entry (it might not be able to
transport terminators, for example)."

so once you used that rino send it back to pick some one else up

Rending is moved to 'to wound" roll I think?

So, from July 2008 until the future eldar codex - pathfinders just got pretty awesome

What on earth do the last two posts have to do with this thread?

Repentia will get 6" normal movement, D6" Holy Rage, d6" Run, and if shot, they can fall forward 2D6". Too bad they are still 20 points a model. :(

Nothing saves repentia. Too many points for too few attacks, that go last.

flaggelents and engines might get better. Depends on the damage chart for the engines.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:What on earth do the last two posts have to do with this thread?

Not sure, but it is a good point re the transports. Might make some sister units more viable if they can 'steal' a ride in their sisters' rhino.................

By "some sister units," you pretty much mean "Repentia," right? There aren't any others that can't get rides (aside from Seraphim, ofc). Thing is, they have a special rule that states that they may never embark on a vehicle.

Im not a fan of the new transport rule. I hate the idea of "battle taxis" ferrying different units into battle after being bought to service just one unit. I was always of the opinion that the transports like land raiders and battlewagons were there own slots is because they were able to act this way. Its not so special when everybody gets to do it.

Well, I hate the idea of an APC being unable to extricate a unit from a tight spot or get it onto a vital objective simply because it isn't "their transport." What is this, Bureacracy 40,000? If the mission hinges on Tac Squad A getting to point X, and only squad B's Rhino can get them there, I can't imagine the driver going "nuh-uh, this isn't your Rhino," can you?