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Well the questiong is the new demons have their special DS rule, one half one the first turn the rest as reserves, the thing is, can they assault the turn they come into play?

Is there anything that says they can?

Answer: no. They can't.

Once again, T-C beats me to it.

Isn't it rumored that in 5th edition they will be able to assault after a DS but no move? That is what I thought I had heard along with DSing into certain things no longer kills your dudes like it does now. I guess they are more geared to 5th edition if the previously stated is true.

Yes i know its not said anywhere but i dont know why i had that bugging me like if i heard something, so i had to ask. So then even for the first turn, if you have to do it, it pretty much suck, because you can get obliterates first turn since you cant appear on cover first turn, and there are chances you loose part of your army right?

kaintxu wrote:Yes i know its not said anywhere but i dont know why i had that bugging me like if i heard something, so i had to ask. So then even for the first turn, if you have to do it, it pretty much suck, because you can get obliterates first turn since you cant appear on cover first turn, and there are chances you loose part of your army right?

Only impassable terrain would destroy a deepstriking unit.

If Daemon armies could assault the same turn they arrived the army really would be disgustingly powerful.

Impassable terrain won't destroy them necessarily for much longer, if the leaked PDF is right.

yakface wrote:

kaintxu wrote:Yes i know its not said anywhere but i dont know why i had that bugging me like if i heard something, so i had to ask. So then even for the first turn, if you have to do it, it pretty much suck, because you can get obliterates first turn since you cant appear on cover first turn, and there are chances you loose part of your army right?

Only impassable terrain would destroy a deepstriking unit.

If Daemon armies could assault the same turn they arrived the army really would be disgustingly powerful.

Respectfully, I disagree. Its no different then current drop units dropping and firing their weaponry. The advantage of getting "stuck in" is mitigated by the limited effective range of the charge. Alternatively it could have been original wave deep stirkes as per normal, with follow on units coming in via summoning icons like the current chaos dex-making them able to assault when they come in. Playtesting in V5 will see how survivable they really are.

Typeline wrote:Isn't it rumored that in 5th edition they will be able to assault after a DS but no move? That is what I thought I had heard along with DSing into certain things no longer kills your dudes like it does now. I guess they are more geared to 5th edition if the previously stated is true.

That's not what the leaked PDF's say, so I'd say it's a very sketchy rumor.

i am hoping you can assault after deepstrike since imo deepstrike is like a surprise attack and the units should get the upperhand by assaulting once it beams down... Right now i think there is more Con to all deepstrike than Pro unless the whole army is a bunch of flamers and horrors and grinders

Ever consider the possibility that it was meant to be a con rather than a pro?

According to some 5th ed rumours, a unit is allowed to 'run' after they deepstike, so this may help to overcome a bad deep strike roll, which should be mighty handy. However, I'll have to agree with yakface, a possible 1st turn charge from an assault army? Just a little too much it you ask me.

1. Yes, played a draft V5 game with draft demons last week using that rule. It is helpful-especially in getting your unit spread out so its not nuked by an ordnance round immediately.

2. Again, we have to agree to disagree. I see nothing wrong with being able to assault (but not move and assault) when deepstriking in. As it is now it gives shooty deepstrike units an advantage vs. assaulty by allowing them to actually do what they are meant to do.

Well actually shooty units, if you deepstrike them, they are going to stay base to base, easier for plasma cannon, ordance and all flast to nuke them easily

But they can still fire when they deepstrike. Chaos demons can assault when they deepstrike. new rumors ar ethat even marines have units that will be able to assault when deepstriking. Its glitchy.

It's just a balancing mechanism. Sure, there is, in principle, nothing wrong with DSers assaulting the turn they DS. That's why generic Lessers and Zagstrukk's boys can do it. I have no problems, however, with GW restricting this ability on a unit-by-unit basis.

And kaintxu does have a point. In 5th, you can run after DSing, so by shooting, you actually do pay a price, which is susceptibility to templates and blast markers.

This is true TC. I would just have preferred a similar capacity to that of the chaos dex.

jfrazell wrote:But they can still fire when they deepstrike. Chaos demons can assault when they deepstrike.

Not according to the Chaos Daemons codex. No Assaulting after DS.

Thats my point. Demons can deepstrike in the chaos codex, but not in the demon codex.

Leaked 5th edition PDF, page 89, "Deep strike"

"Models arriving via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain and may not move further in that Movement phase other than to disembark from a Deep striking transport vehicle. They may fire or run as normal in the ensuing Shooting phase, counting as having moved (moved 12” in case of Vehicles). Being disrupted by their Deep Strike move, however, they may not mount any Assault in the turn they arrive, unless differently specified in their special rules."

So your choices are, shoot, run (to move to better position or spread out for template minimization), or sit there. Assault isn't an option unless you have some special rules that give it to you (and unless I missed something, the deamons don't have any such special rule).

Now it is possible that this will be changed before the real book gets printed, but I seriously doubt it will. We already lived though one edition of deamon bomb, we don't need another.

But yet we continue to live through drop pod AC / heavy flamer bomb.

jfrazell wrote:But yet we continue to live through drop pod AC / heavy flamer bomb.

The major difference between shooting and assaulting is that assaulting can lock units in combat so that during the enemy's turn which prevents them from being shot at.

So even though Daemon or drop pod armies can appear and immediately shoot the crap out of you, when your turn rolls around you are able to retaliate by either shooting and/or assaulting them.

If units are allowed to DS and charge at the same time it allows them to deal out their damage but simultaneously prevents the enemy from retaliating via shooting. Therefore it is a much more dangerous ability.


While the Daemons in a CSM army are indeed allowed to charge the same turn they DS, they are bound to DSing onto Icons which allows the opponent to know exactly where they will be DSing from and gives them a chance to eliminate the Icon before the Daemons arrive. In other words, I think it is perfectly fair to allow some units to charge when they DS if the unit is balanced to do so or the quantity of the unit is limited in the army list or an extra points cost is paid for the ability.

I suppose Daemon armies could have been given that ability but I believe the points cost that you would then have to assign the model would be pretty darn unwieldy and you'd get into a situation where you have models that have a ridiculous points cost because of their offensive capabilities when the model itself is still relatively easy to kill, and thus the army would definitely be a: "land within charge range = win or don't land within charge range = don't win".

Agreed. It seems obvious to me looking at C:CD, that the daemon point costs are as low as they are because of the expectation that they’ll (at least some of the time) get shot at before they get a chance to do anything.

The codex actually gives the tactical suggestion of dropping durable units with Icons first, then summoning behind them off the Icons in the following turn to keep more fragile units screened from shooting. Well, it doesn’t say that explicitly (probably because it wouldn’t make sense in 4th), but it implies it. Since you can Run after Deep Striking, that also allows the screening unit to spread out more and block a wider area to hide other units behind it.

Actually the cost for some units are cheaper. Demonettes atc. are about the same. I am not afimilar with Tzeentch.

Again, I understand the counterargument and can accept that (been waiting for a year for this list). it just appears to imbalance, especially as the rumors are now of much more durable marine units being able to do that.

if demons could assault off the deepstrike, it would make the cavalry/beast units incredibly overpowered. they have fleet and 12" assault and they are some of the best CC units in the game.

a unit of 12 seekers will get on average 5 rends under the the 5th rules set (2-3 more dead from regular wounds), 10 rends under the 4th rules set (against WS4 oponents.) thats a dead marine squad. right off the bat before they can do anything.

you would see armies running at the very least 24 seekers/flesh hounds that have a 13-18" assault range the turn they drop. the keeper of secrets would have a 7-12" assault the turn it drops.. you drop a keeper and 24 seekers in your first wave being able to assault off the drop and theres not going to be too much of anything left for your second wave to take care of.

if they made is so any subsequent drops after the first wave could assault off of icons, then maybe it could work. would still be really hard to deal with that kind of army.

I got the chance to take a look at a 5th Ed book at my local GW store.

You cannot assault out of a deep strike. I did not look for the rule of being able to run after you deep strike, that someone mentioned above. I didn't see anything about it when I read over the deep strike rules. I'll double check when I go up to the GW store tomorrow.

Another interesting tidbit is that units are no longer automatically destroyed when they land in a friendly unit or within 1" of a hostile unit. They roll on a special table.

1-2: Unit destroyed, as usual.

3-4: Opponent gets to choose where the unit deep strikes. Units cannot put the unit in impassable terrain. Difficult terrain counts as dangerous terrain.

5-6: Unit reloaded into reserves. If it is the last turn of the game and this result is rolled, the unit which rolled this result is counted as destroyed.

Edited for clarity. 2nd Edit was the rules for deep strike errors.

The run rule is basically every unit can do a fleet of foot move, but if they do a fleet of foot move, they cannot charge. Only units with the traditional fleet of foot rule can fleet of foot and charge.

I looked it up, you can run out of deep strike.

Additionally slow and purposeful units can run. We looked through all the rules for run and slow and purposeful and there is nothing prohibiting slow and purposeful units from making a run move.