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Which in my opinion should really mean throw away your mortals and rush and get the shiny new daemons. A quick glance through shows the marks to be gutted, oops sorry just Tzeentch. Now you get an all powerful 6+ ward save instead of those useless power dice. If your a hero it gets even better, Lords and Heroes who aren't wizards only get the ward save when they choose tzeentch, but wizards can now choose from any lore in the book with the mark (huge price drop from 140/70/20 to 10/20). All other marks appear the same, ITP for slaanesh (20/25 pts), Fear for Nurgle but no extra wound(20/30pts), frenzy for Khorne but no dispel dice (big drop now only 15/40 points) points are for Lord/hero/unit

All lords and heroes bar the daemon prince dropped 10 pts daemon prince is now 350
Warriors dropped a whopping 2 points, but it only costs 5 points to make them chosen (10 for the knights)
Marauders did not change
Chariots, Knights and MARUADER HORSEMEN???!@?#?$#? have moved to special (and lost the option for a shield!!)
Chaos steeds are no longer WS4
Spawn no longer have the option of marks but remain the same points cost

I may be bitter (and I am bitter) because I am a Tzeentch player and Tzeentch got totally nerfed with this list but the other changes really don't seem to help the army at all IMO. Warriors are still basically useless there only 2 points less expensive uselessness. Now the army has no, zero, zilch cavalry options in core. All in all it seems very restrictive and one dimensional for an army that should have the widest range of choices (Chaos, chaotic, duhh)

PapaSmurf

Is the new White Dwarf out? If not where can one find this list?

I have a subscription and got it today

PapaSmurf

ps - can someone please tell me how I can get a canadian flag rather than a US one on my avatar, not that I have anything against the US, I'm just a proud Canadian EH!

Lovin' it.

We've pretty much decided to continue using the current HoC book in our circle. The new Daemon book doesn't change anything in the HoC book so I don't understand why they've decided to go this route.

The only HoC player is my friend's wife who is neither a powergamer nor a tournament player so she's fine to still use the current book.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I was going to sell my Chaos Army, but it appears now that it may be worth holding on to till the next Army book comes out. This list is just so bad that I won't get any money for my army.

Papasmurf, the flag is connected to your ISP. It's completely automated.

I also noticed that they didn't give us a new list of spells for the various marks so apparently we have to haul around the old army book as well as the WD in order to have access to our spells.

This list feels much like the CSM book only more so because atleast with CSM you could still take "generic" daemons to go along with your troops, here they've taken not only daemons but beasts away from the chaos general as well.

Guess its a good thing I have two other competitive armies to play with cause chaos is going deep, deep, deep into a drawer till the full army book surfaces

PapaSmurf

Maybe they'll remember that the spell lists are different
and make it a two parter? I seem to recall that the Blood
Angels list was in two White Dwarfs...

PapaSmurf wrote:I also noticed that they didn't give us a new list of spells for the various marks so apparently we have to haul around the old army book as well as the WD in order to have access to our spells.

What I heard previously was that the chaos lores are gone and you use a handful of the BRB lores. MoT gives the sorcerer a larger selection to choose from and some kind of reroll. Or something.

Yep, major kick in the nuts. Sorry mortals. Planning on doing as Ozy said and let my HoC friends use their own book, less demons and beasts.

- Salvage

All previous reports were that the old lores are completely gone. That you get Death, Shadow, or Fire, or if you have the mark of Tzeentch, you get yo choose any lore from the main book. Which isn't bad, but is certainly nowhere near as cool as the god-specific lores.

Boss_Salvage wrote:

PapaSmurf wrote:I also noticed that they didn't give us a new list of spells for the various marks so apparently we have to haul around the old army book as well as the WD in order to have access to our spells.

What I heard previously was that the chaos lores are gone and you use a handful of the BRB lores. MoT gives the sorcerer a larger selection to choose from and some kind of reroll. Or something.

Yep, major kick in the nuts. Sorry mortals. Planning on doing as Ozy said and let my HoC friends use their own book, less demons and beasts.

- Salvage

Why less beasts too?

apparently their not mortal enough or was it not chaosy enough or maybe to daemony, whatever the case you beasts are forbidden from playing with those other chaosy type people forever, now go to your room until you can come up with a good reason why i should let you out

PapaSmurf

After reading through the list again I can only see Nurgle being really popular (and by popular I mean people only run screaming from it rather than break out the pitchforks and torches)

PapaSmurf

Wait you're kidding! They didn't take away the god-specific lores from mortals did they? Why on earth would they do that?

gone like the wind you never want to claim

PapaSmurf

Wow, hopefully there will be new lores in the new book then. I can't imagine mortals not having god-specific lores.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Wait you're kidding! They didn't take away the god-specific lores from mortals did they? Why on earth would they do that?

Because after making the new demon lores so incredibly ass-kickin' the developers couldn't decide whether to extend them to the mortals or keep the old ones with some rejiggering (like the horror spell for Tizz). So they flipped a coin, it landed on edge, and they proceeded to take a dump on the HoC spell lores too :S

- Salvage

Sorry, but had to offer my obligatory

Here's hoping the actual army book will offer an army that's fun to play. I mean, even if you up all warrior stats by 1 and made them chosen for the same points, the army just lacks the fun of a mixed force. I don't care about dominating, I just want to at least enjoy trying to win.

daggitkiller wrote:Sorry, but had to offer my obligatory
I don't care about dominating, I just want to at least enjoy trying to win.

Agreed. Possibly one of the best put statements about how Warhammer should be played. But... some people only play to win.

So, based on this, is there actually a reason to field Mortals right now?

My Tzeentch army just got slapped in the face. Sure, I played a different style (Lord on Disc, two Heroes on Chariots, Chosen Knights, Screamers, Hellcannon), but it was a viable, winnable and characteristic list.

Now it's useless, since I don't really have any models for Core units.

Unless I play in an environment that allows the old book, my Chaos army has to be shelved until the new book comes out.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Unless I play in an environment that allows the old book...

Well? Do you? Because if you don't, yeah, your army is pretty hosed until you buy some infantry. I feel your pain. I have enough infantry to make a unit of Warriors and a unit of Marauders, but I'll have to buy another box of Chaos Warriors to play at 2000 points. Your situation is... (counts on fingers) about three times as bad as mine.

If I were you, I'd shelve your army until the new army book comes out (assuming you can't keep using the old one). This "gets you by" list looks totally weaksauce.

I'm shelving my Chaos as well. Time to unleash the cheese that is 2 dragons in 2000 points while I get my high elves built up.

mercutio531 wrote:Possibly one of the best put statements about how Warhammer should be played. But... some people only play to win.

Once again, I find it hard to believe that you can preach the "spirit" of a game to someone within your own narrow framework. If people have fun playing competitively, then why hold it against them. Who are you to tell someone how to have fun?

I'll try to pick up the White Dwarf today and assemble the
list for an Article (yak, can we do that? Especially if they're
providing the lists for free?)

You can always do what my game group is doing: ignoring the WD list and continuing to use the Army Book. It's not like anything changes in the Army book because another book has different rules for daemons.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I'll be sure to point that out in the article. The article is just
for information, not really for a personal list or anything.

Sorry malf, I wasn't replying to you but to the distraught gamers higher on the page.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Oh, I'm not distraught, just disappointed. I was hoping that the WD list would have some cool new units. As it is, I will certainly use the old Army Book if I play FB soon.

I would be distraught if I were a HoC player... I almost was! I would totally support the use of the old book, this new list sounds weak. Go for it with your article Malfred!