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Last time I played Warhammer was 2 years ago with Chaos... now I got the chaos daemons book and I have came up with this army. Please critique. Thanks!

HQ:
Blue Scribes 130
Skulltaker on chariot 160
Herald of tzeentch + breath of chaos + disc + master sorc. + bolt = 130

Elites:
5 flamers w/ bolt = 205
4 flamers with bolt = 170
6 fiends = 180

fast attack:
10 flesh hounds = 150
3 screamers of tzeentch = 48
10 furies = 150

Heavy :
grinder with phlegm + tongue = 185

troops:
10 X daemonettes w/ trans gaze + inst. chaos = 150
5 X horrors w/ bolt + changeling = 100
5 x horrors w/bolt =95
10 daemonettes w/ trans gaze = 145

total : 1998

Some considerations - thought about blood crushers w/ skulltaker instead of fiends and 10 bloodletters....

Basically this army is bent on being faster than mostly others and "pick their fights". my slowest guys are the Horrors but they are shooters so they are OK. others go about 12" normal movement. I decided not to use icons because i think the speed of my army will offset the randomness of the DS.

Tactics:
DS 1:

skulltaker
3 screamers
10 furies
grinder
5 flamers
10 daemonettes
5 horrors w/ blue scribes

DS2:
herald of tzeentch
10 flesh hounds
4 flamers
6 fiends
5 horrors w/ changeling
10 daemonettes

I try to balance the shooting with the combat from the two sets just in case i dont get what I want. I will basically use my shooter's speed to surround the enemies and reduce them enough for my "weaker" CC hounds,fiends,daemonettes etc. to finish them off. I included few bolts to get rid of characters and tough monsters since I dont have anyone who can take on them. I thought about making this a Slannesh + Tzeentch team BUT Skulltaker's skills are too good to pass on and he is one man wrecking crew with 4+ instant kill rending ability!

I am also thinking of the seekers instead of furies and perhaps getting more screamers and take something else out.

So what are your thoughts? I dont think this army is a one trick pony since I tried hard enough to really divide the combat and the shooting (although there might be little more shooting...). Thanks!

And a side question... The screamers has "melta bombs" which are good against vehicles.. but otherwise they are useless in combat and shooting since they cant throw melta bombs?

I think you need more grinders or none. even in 5th lone vehicles will quickly die.

Russell wrote:I think you need more grinders or none. even in 5th lone vehicles will quickly die.

hmmm is it better to remove it and play something else or remove something else for another one? I dont' play vehicles that much so do they make back their points more than normal units? I could take out 3 more flamers and make grinder not have tongue to have another grinder but then my flamers will be sure to die when they come out now. Any suggestions?

i was also thinking taking out the grinder and putting in a Prince for little more power to deal with vehicles whatnot, or take out furies and put in seekers.. any suggestions?

All comments pertain to 4th edition.

I'd say the Herald of Tzeentch shouldn't mix Breathe and Bolt, as one is for long range IC style tank sniping, and one is for getting up close and personal and mowing down infantry. I'd say change his breathe out for Daemonic Gaze, and just have him shoot from behind his IC status. In the new role of IC sniper he doesn't need a disk, and you can give him an Icon, secure in the knowledge he'll still be alive to use it.

I think a regular Herald of Khorne will probably do you alright instead of Skulltaker. You save a few points and he's still a house in melee and tough vs. shooting. He's probably going to be public enemy #1, so no need to spend the extra points on CC powers he's unlikely to be using. Just picture him as a big red 85 points target, sucking up enemy fire to get your gribblies in.

Blue scribes are alright, I'd probably do either the Sniper-Herald described above or a Pavane herald, depending on which you prefer, but he's not too expensive and the ability to swtich on demand is pretty cool

Make sure you are careful about arranging the Flamers on the Deep Strike, whoever's in the middle of the formation can't shoot his Breathe of Chaos, so make sure that's the guy with Bolt of Change.

For the same points, flesh hounds ought to replace your furies, they are just better, and the rending upgrade is a worthwhile buy for the Fleshhound boss. If you get even one SM with it it's paid for itself.

I say phlem only on the BG, you want it pie plating enemy infantry, you've got plenty of Bolt of Changes for the anti-tank stuff...besides, phlem isn't atrocious anti-tank, and your claws can shred enemy hulls.

Daemonettes and Horrors. THe horrors look fine, I'd drop the trans gaze on the Daemonettes and the Instruments. They ought to be winning combat, and trans isn't any good.

I also think you need to get some icons out there, something I've found to work well is to take 2 IC Heralds and give them each an Icon, splitting them into the 2 waves. Further, I think you could split your units into smaller units, as more targets is usually better.

Here are some new changes:
HQ:
Blue Scribes 130
Skulltaker on chariot 160
Herald of tzeentch + disc + master sorc. + bolt = 100

Elites:
5 flamers w/ bolt = 205
4 flamers with bolt = 170
6 fiends = 180

fast attack:
10 flesh houndsw/fury= 160
10 flesh hounds w/fury and Karanak =210
6 screamers of tzeentch = 96

troops:
10 X daemonettes 140
5 X horrors w/ bolt + changeling = 100
5 x horrors w/bolt =95
10 daemonettes w/ trans gaze = 140

total : 1726

Now here is where I am kinda split on the new choices:
Choice A:
2 soul grinders w/ phelgm =320 total = 2046 (will figure out what to cut)

Choice B:
skulltaker on chariot + 1 grinder w/phelgm = 320=2046 Skulltaker is just too much of a CC fiend with 4+ instant death

Choice C:
skulltaker on chariot + tzeentch herald with breath and bolt and master = 290 = 2016 (less cut and the herald can try hunt down troops with fire)

Choice D:
Bloodthirster, skarbrand, oracle or lord of tzeentch greater daemons - they will serve as both troop killers and some vehicle killers. of course being one unit has huge bull's eye on it...

I like the Disc because it gives the herald 12" movement since the bolt and other shots are 24" or less... the 2 sould grinders definitely will packa punch but some friends who has played with them told me the 3 BS really hurts when it counts. Also the chaos icon are bit too unreliable and expensive. I think the speedy guys I have will offset whatever scatter i get... The 6 screamers can probably get me a vehicle kill or two with meltas.

Any suggestions before i make an order? Thanks!

I also thought about seekers - they have rending and more attacks than the hounds so they might replace a hound unit...

anyone here can help?

here is revised list:

Here is my new list taking into account some comments:

HQ:
Skulltaker on chariot = 160
Herald tzeentch w/ chariot. master sorc, bolt = 100 (chariot gives a lot more bonus than disc..)

Fast:
10 flesh houds w/ fury = 160
10 seekers = 170

elite:
6 fiends = 180
4 flamers w/bolt = 170
5 flamers w/bolt = 205

heavy:
DP tzeentch w/ bolt, daem. gaze = 160
DP nurgle with nox touch, daemonic gaze = 140

troops:
10 daemonettes X 2 = 280
5 horrors w/ bolt and changeling = 100
5 horrors w/bolt = 95

Total = 1920.
Got 80 points left, some people suggested icons on plaguebearers might be best but that is probably a 200 point drain minimum (1 min 5 unit on each drop list) so not sure if i can cut stuff out (maybe a prince?). with 80 pts i could have 3 horrors and 1 icon or 2 icons and 1 horror or whatever else... (screamers?)

One DP nurgle will be another tough marine dispatcher with 2+ wound kills while the other DP will be tank hunter and decent troop blocker.

Any suggestions?

Add Iron Skin to your DP. a 5+ save for them really isn't enough. That sucks up most of the 80 points you have left.

changed army list little bit...

HQ:
Skulltaker w/chariot
Heral tzeentch w/chariot,master sorc, bolt
bloodthirster w/ deathstrike,blessing,unholy might
Elite:
6 fiends
3 flamers X 2
fast:
8 seekers X 2
Troops:
10 blood letters w/ icon X 2
6 horrors + changeling w/bolt
6 horrors w/ bolt
heavy:
deamon prince tzeentch, bolt, gaze

total 1993

why are we doing skulltaker on chariot? he can't join a squad then and can be shot to pieces

Dont get seekers, i think there horrible, and i have no idea what iron skin is, i've heard of iron hide!