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(Not sure if this belongs in here or Fluff, if it's in the wrong place can a mod please move it?)

So according to Bell of Lost Souls the conversion beamer is coming back.... I've never heard of this weapon as I didn't start playing until 4th ed - the Warhammer wikia says it's a beam weapon (duh! ) which affects big targets as easily as small ones - how did they used to work? (i.e what were the game mechanics?)

Thanks,

Viperion

Back in the day they were a weapon that would create a different sized template based on the toughness of the target... if I remember correctly. I may or may not have that part right, but the concept behind them is that they convert matter into energy. This would mean that there was a big explosion when they fired at something large, or dense. I seem to remember some kind of range factor in there as well... My copy of Rouge Trader is in pieces some place, otherwise I could look it up.

I believe that the area of effect got larger the farther away the target was, as more matter was converted to energy. I vaguely remember RT, but at one point I had a Harelquin solitaire that psychically animated a conversion beamer, it was a little ridiculous.

Ah the conversion beamer....
the run down
   It even had a mini one the chaos heavy weapon plastic sprue.
   It was a long range heavy weapon that HAD to be fired while stationary (no matter how many suspensors you had...)
   It fired a slow moving "matter-to-energy beam" that could be dodged by the target, represented by a saving throw based on the distance between the firer and target
   the strength and armor modifier was base on the "mass" (a combination of strength and toughness) of the object impacted
   the AOF depended on the final length off the beam, it got larger the further it went
   It could destroy terrain... easily
   and if it missed it would continue until it hit something or reached the end of it's range (and detonate)

It was a long range heavy weapon that HAD to be fired while stationary (no matter how many suspensors you had...)
It fired a slow moving "matter-to-energy beam" that could be dodged by the target, represented by a saving throw based on the distance between the firer and target
the strength and armor modifier was base on the "mass" (a combination of strength and toughness) of the object impacted
the AOF depended on the final length off the beam, it got larger the further it went

Suspensors? Saving Throw based on distance?? AOE depending on length???

gotta love that Rouge Trader and 2nd edition stuff

Suspensors were the only way to keep your power trousers up!

Suspensors reduced the movement penalty of gear and I *believe* because I dont have my RT book with me right now they could allow you to move and fire heavy weapons.

The Conversion Beamer always counted as one higher than the targets toughness, so always needed a 3+ to wound. In RT everything had a toughness, even vehicals. The template was larger every 20" from the firer (I think). It started out as a 2" then 3" @ 40" and finaly 4" @ 60" (again I). I don't remember dodge rules, but that was a long time ago and I'm at work. It was a great weapon, but alas, is no more. I hope the new one has similar rules. -K

Um, ridiculous ones?

My guess is that it gets played as a Marine-mounted gauss weapon.

ptlangley wrote:I believe that the area of effect got larger the farther away the target was, as more matter was converted to energy. I vaguely remember RT, but at one point I had a Harelquin solitaire that psychically animated a conversion beamer, it was a little ridiculous.

Sigh... I miss those days!

750 point land raider that was insanely hard to destroy, catastrophic mishap table for the cyclone missle launcher, Macro cannons...

Belphegor wrote:Ah the conversion beamer....
the run down
   It even had a mini one the chaos heavy weapon plastic sprue.
   It was a long range heavy weapon that HAD to be fired while stationary (no matter how many suspensors you had...)
   It fired a slow moving "matter-to-energy beam" that could be dodged by the target, represented by a saving throw based on the distance between the firer and target
   the strength and armor modifier was base on the "mass" (a combination of strength and toughness) of the object impacted
   the AOF depended on the final length off the beam, it got larger the further it went
   It could destroy terrain... easily
   and if it missed it would continue until it hit something or reached the end of it's range (and detonate)

YEAH!! I forgot about the stationary thing. I do remember using it to remove terrain from the board, that was a pretty cool aspect to the weapon.

Grignard wrote:Suspensors reduced the movement penalty of gear and I *believe* because I dont have my RT book with me right now they could allow you to move and fire heavy weapons.

In RT there was movement penalties that accumulated as your characters had more, and heavier gear. Suspensors helped offset this. They did allow some models to move and shoot with heavy weapons as well. This was one of the things that made Death Jesters so nasty back in the day.

They appeared briefly in 3rd, I recall - Deathwatch Kill Teams could have Heavy Bolters with Hellfire ammo and Suspensors, making them 18" Assault weapons... with a blast template that always wounded on a 2+, I believe. o_O

Savnock wrote:Um, ridiculous ones?

My guess is that it gets played as a Marine-mounted gauss weapon.

You have to look at this in context. This wasn't 3rd or 4th ed 40k. 1st edition was far more detailed than the present game. Games were smaller, and the tounement scene didn't dictate trends in the game. The game was a great deal more casual back then. A lot of things had complex rules in RT, but they were totally digestible by players, and they gave the game a lot of depth and character. The focus has turned over time to larger games, and a wider variety of units.

Why do you guess that it will be similar to a gauss weapon?

conversion beamers were cool in Space Crusade too, hurting every model in a straight line from the firer until the beam hit a wall.

and yay, i still have a pile of them in my Space Crusade bits box - perhaps they'll be worth a fortune on eBay?

No, I get it. I started in RT, too. Being a little powergamer back then, it was all about how many mutations or how much ridiculous gear we could load onto the small number of models that we had the patience to collect and paint. It was fun, but every single game featured some forgotten rules. Our skirmishes were as much a test of remembering stuff under pressure as they were tactical matches.

My suggestion that it might be a Marine-ified gauss weapon came from the current trend to universalize existing rules rather than inventing complex special situations. Since the Gauss weapon affects massive stuff as much as light stuff, I figured they might look there for the rules. Fluffwise, reinventing the conversion beamer as reverse-engineered Necron tech is an interesting way to show how dribs and drabs of xenos gear can end up in the hands of the Impreium's more elite forces.

It's not a perfect fit at all, but it seems a likely choice. Just idle speculation. A better fit (but still universalizing existing rules) might be a gauss weapon that works on a 4+. If able to invent rules from the ground up, maybe a reversal of the usual toughness chart, and bonus Strength vs. higher AVs would make sense.

Armour Penetration 1d6 + 1d6 extra for every point of AV over 10.

AV 12? 3d6 Penetration.

AV 14? 5d6 Penetration.

That would be crazy!

Savnock wrote:
My suggestion that it might be a Marine-ified gauss weapon came from the current trend to universalize existing rules rather than inventing complex special situations. Since the Gauss weapon affects massive stuff as much as light stuff, I figured they might look there for the rules. Fluffwise, reinventing the conversion beamer as reverse-engineered Necron tech is an interesting way to show how dribs and drabs of xenos gear can end up in the hands of the Impreium's more elite forces.

I can see that. The Adeptus Mechanicus on Mars seems to be into tinkering with alien tech as well. That was part of the Mentor legion's fluff back in the day IIRC.

MinMax wrote:Armour Penetration 1d6 + 1d6 extra for every point of AV over 10.

AV 12? 3d6 Penetration.

AV 14? 5d6 Penetration.

That would be crazy!

That is sort of how it ended up working. The heavier the armor of the target, the easier it was to damage it. Kind of counterintutive but that's how it worked. Nothing busted though heavy tanks like a conversion beamer. They were ok at killing terminators too but vehicles was there true strength.

xenite wrote:
Sigh... I miss those days!

750 point land raider that was insanely hard to destroy, catastrophic mishap table for the cyclone missle launcher, Macro cannons...

Nothing quite like laughing as your opponent misfires with his Cyclone Missle Launcher and his Terminator spins around in a ciricle shooting off all his missles in random directions....

The lance rule would be the closest approximation, I think.