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Okay, here's my first shot at a 1500 point DA army: (the points are with all the extras added up)

HQ

Command Squad @ 190 w/the following
Company Champ w/meltabombs
Apothecary
Standard bearer
Vet. w/meltagun
Vet. w/power sword

Azrael, Supreme Grand Master @ 225

Company Master w/ power wep and storm bolter @ 120

Chaplain w/ jump pack @ 120

Elites

Terminator Squad w/ assault cannon and 1 chainfist @ 250

Dreadnought w/ assault cannon and missile launcher @ 135

Troops

Tac squad (10 man) w/ missile launcher and flamer (from BFM) @ 180

Tac squad (10 man) w/ meltagun and multi-meta and sarge w/power wep @ 200

Rhino w/storm bolter @ 35

Rhino w/storm bolter @ 35

And, if i'm not mistaken, it all adds up to 1500 pts. Any suggestion welcome, except i don't like plasma weps. Thanks!

You have three HQ choices. You're only allowed two.

Command squad is less than useful. How will it ever hit combat, and what will it achieve once it's there? 2 PWs do not an assault squad make.

The DWing Sergeant should swap his weapons for LCs or TH + SS, else he gets stuck with a measly PW.

A Sarge with a PW is a waste. Get a PF or get nothing. The PF gets worse in 5th ed, but it's still worth the extra 10 pts. over a PW.

Multi-melta is a bad weapon. Get a lascannon instead.

Why do you dislike plasma?

Do you have any ideas for which model I should remove? Are Company Masters required for DA armies?

I I get rid of the chappy i will give the command squad a razorback... I don't get why you think command squads suck... If you have any suggestions for different weps please tell me.

Does the termie set come with LC's for the sarge?
'Cause I don't have spares...

Does the tac squad sarge come with an option for PF in the box?

What's so bad about a Multi-Meta?

Plasma? Overheats and kills you own guys, overall i think its lame...

Commands squads dont suck. Its a popular stupid belief because you cant make them 10 man sqauds. but for the five man limit you can equip them better than a sqaud of vets....

Personaly i run a command sqaud in my list and i NEVER seen a fellow DA player run a vet sqaud...

You're spending way too many points on your HQs at this small a point level. As T-C pointed out, your list is illegal because you are already taking three HQs instead of the allowed two. Multi-meltas in a tactical squad are less than optimal because it is a close range, move or fire weapon. They excel on platforms that allow them to close the distance quickly and fire on the move, such as speeders and bikes.

Keeping the core of your list intact, since it seems to be based off of models you currently own, here are some simple upgrades you can make. By simply dropping two of your HQs and some random meltabombs, I was able to add a full devastator squad with two lascannons and two heavy bolters, plus a Predator. The devastators are designed to be combat squaded (two las in one, two HB in the other). T-Cs suggestions are a solid building block for the future though, especially when considering what to buy next.

As an aside, plasma weapons rock. STR 7, AP 2 at medium to long range with either rapid fire or blast is awesome. Worth the occaisonal risk when firing.

Take care,
Mike K.

1500 Pts - Dark Angels Roster - Unnamed

HQ: Company Master (1#, 120 Pts)
1 Company Master @ 120 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Storm Bolter
1 Iron Halo @ [0] Pts

: Command Squad (5#, 185 Pts)
2 Command Squad @ 185 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x2); Power Weapon (x1); Meltagun (x1); Apothecary; Company Champion; Standard Bearer
1 Apothecary @ [20] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Bolter
1 Narthecium @ [0] Pts
1 Reductor @ [0] Pts
1 Company Champion @ [25] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Combat Shield; Power Weapon
1 Standard Bearer @ [10] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Bolter
1 Company Standard @ [0] Pts

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 Pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 215 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Flamer; Missile Launcher
1 Rhino @ [35] Pts
Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Bolter (x1)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 235 Pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 235 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Meltagun; Multi-Melta
1 Rhino @ [35] Pts
Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [33] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon

Elite: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 250 Pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad @ 250 Pts
Power Fist (x3); Storm Bolter (x3); Chain Fist (x1); Assault Cannon
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Sword (x1); Storm Bolter (x1)

Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 135 Pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 135 Pts
Missile Launcher; Assault Cannon; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (10#, 265 Pts)
9 Devastator Squad @ 265 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x5); Heavy Bolter (x2); Lascannon (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x1); Bolter (x1)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 95 Pts)
1 Predator @ 95 Pts
Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (x2); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Total Roster Cost: 1500

(Edited for spelling)

Panzerleader and Tegeus-Cromis are both right, but Panzerleader expressed himself better.

Both of them appear to have missed the option, however, to give the Sgt of your Deathwing squad the Chainfist. That’s what I plan to do with mine. As long as you remember to build the models that way, I think your configuration of that unit is perfect.

HQs are fun, but the game is more interesting and your chances of success are generally better if you have more guys, more units, and more guns on the table. Command Squads don’t “suck” per se, but they’re very expensive and they’re just about as easy to kill as 5 regular guys who cost a lot less.

I like Panzerleader’s suggested modification to your list.

oooh, hadn't thought of chainfists on the vet sgt. I still like the LC's but I'll keep that set up in mind (all my termies arms are magnetized for easy swapping).

The list Panzerleader posted is pretty good and gives you a bit of everything to play with.

Have fun!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Nice catch, Mannahnin! You're right, the squad's fine if the CF goes on the Sarge.

I like PanzerLeader's suggestions too. Just for the record, though, I don't think he "expressed himself better" exactly. What he did was say a whole lot more. Is a book expressed better than a precis?

Ok, thanks guys. I was wondering if I could have Leman Russes instead of crappy SM tanks for my tanks... Maybe a few Leman Russes... Would that be okay for non-apocalypse? That means I could take out the Predator and get a razorback for my Command squad or something....

Nope, non-Apoc you can't do so. Really though, Preds are pretty good as long as you stick to the Autocannon/Hvy Bolter version. 95 pts for 8 AP4 shots is nothing to sneeze at.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Nice catch, Mannahnin! You're right, the squad's fine if the CF goes on the Sarge.

I like PanzerLeader's suggestions too. Just for the record, though, I don't think he "expressed himself better" exactly. What he did was say a whole lot more. Is a book expressed better than a precis?

I perceived his response to be more tailored to his audience and therefore more useful. Of course PanzerLeader's just started posting on here again after a several year absence for college, OCS, etc, so he’s a little less terse in his posts than jaded old forum hounds like you and me tend to be.

A book is expressed better than a precis: that's the point of spending all that time with books rather than a summary.

Something in favour of a Command Squad is that they're Fearless, quite aside from their equipment, and in combination with an Interrogator-Chaplain can take a Banner that lets them make nearby units Fearless.

No, Nurglitch. A book expresses more than a precis. More is more, better is better. You do not read a book in the hope that it is better than its precis. A precis would make a terrible book and a book would make a terrible precis, as any attempt to pass off one as the other will tell you.

Yes, a book is better than a precis because it contains more information.

ok then. Thanks oz. What about the Annihiltaor, though. Is there something bad about it? And one more thing. I'm probably getting the DA chapter upgrade set. I think it comes with termie legs and arms. Does anyone know how to scratch build bodies?

-Thanks

BTW, what does "precis" mean

Basically, the Annihilator can be expensive, fully kitted out with three Lascannons and you can get cheaper anti-tank on Devastators. It's more mobile than the Devastators, but at some loss of firepower. It may be worth the risk if it pushes forward with the rest of your vehicles, but not as much if you're planning on sitting back.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/precis

For shame, Nurglitch. "Better" and "expressed better" (your original claim) are not the same thing, and you know it. One text can be expressed better than another text and yet not be the better text in the sense you mention. This would be the case if, for example, the precis were succinct and appealingly crafted, but the book it was written for were hastily and shoddily written.

Imperial 07: The Annihilator is a poor choice IMO. Compare it with the Destructor--the point disparity is ridiculous. Yes, they're meant for different roles, but you can put the points you save by taking autocannon + 2 HBs (and maybe the pintle SB) instead of TL LC + 2 LCs towards getting more AT into your army elsewhere. For instance, attack bikes, so terrible in vanilla SM armies, are actually pretty good in DA, because they can get multi-meltas for no added cost.

Ok. Thanks. Another noob question: What's a vanilla SM army?

Imperial07: "Vanilla" SM armies are SM armies that use Codex Space Marines without any divergence. Ultramarines are the ultimate example of vanilla marines.

Yeah, "vanilla" is just gamer jargon. Real men (read: fluff bunnies) call them "Codex", as in adhering to the dictates Codex Astartes.

^What they said, except as I understand it, whether or not there's any divergence is immaterial. If you use Codex: Space Marines (instead of C: BA, C: DA or whatever), you're playing vanilla Marines. In this case, all that matters is that DA get MM attack bikes for the same price as C: SM HB attack bikes, and 15 pts. cheaper than C: SM MM attack bikes. If you have any intention of running RWing in future, I'd definitely suggest picking one up. I mention it because an MM attack bike is one of the things the points disparity between the two kinds of Pred I listed would pay for, with change to spare.

The jargon seems to be that if you're talking about Marines on a codex by codex basis Marines using Codex: Space Marines are "Blue Marines", Codex: Blood Angels "Red Marines", Codex: Dark Angels "Green Marines", Codex: Black Templars: "Black Marines", Codex: Space Wolfs "Grey Marines", and Codex: Chaos Space Marines "Spiky Marines".

Incidentally the Dark Angel Attack Bikes are also Fearless.

Take out the chaplain in the jump pack seeing as you don't even need him. You may also want to drop the command squad and company master and simply run Azrael with a company vet squad. A 4+ inv save is going to go a long way towards helping them in the counterattack department.

RE: Pred Annihilator: DA tanks are very cheap when they are in their anti-infantry role, and very expensive in their tank hunting form. Thus, it is more efficient to use the Imperial Guard method, Infantry kill vehicles, vehicles kill infantry. Of course, most Space Marines feel comfortable in both roles but its a good rule of thumb.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Oh and tC and Nurglitch: Get a room you two!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ya, I really like the Idea of Azrael's 4+ invulnerable save. I waould take your suggestion, but aren't apothecaries important? Or are their nartecium/reductors impractical in games or something?

They are nice but by no means necessary. All they do is disregard wounds taken from shooting when taking leadership tests and to once a turn allow you to ignore one wound in the squad as long as it was not from a CCW that ignores armour saves.

Ozy, don't you know both our egos could never fit in the same room?

Imperial07, Apothecaries are excellent (to the point of being necessary) under special circumstances (DWing and RWing command squads), but in a standard list, they aren't really worth the hassle of taking a command squad. So if you have some cunning plan to make the command squad work, go ahead and take the Apothecary, but don't feel like you need to fit him in for his own sake.

So, if I get rid of the command squad, what do you suggest I do with the leftover points?

Drop the command squad, the chaplain, possibly the commander, (at least tool him down and stik him in a tac squad) the dread, and the termy squad, they are all uneeded, then I would grab a dev squad, a landraider, and a compliment of veterans to go with azrael put them in the raider for counter attack/anti-tank, and possibly one to two more tac squads depending of points.