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I've been subing armies and reading here and warseer, reading the codex and I got Nada for tournament viable armies. When the Orc dex came out, heck before it came out, there were 2 or 3 top tier lists right out of the box. So come on give me your cheesiest winningest Daemon armies. I want to know can Daemons really handel the other top tier lists?

No, they can't.

Demons are decent in fantasy though, maybe give that a whirl instead.

It's a giant, expensive crapshoot... like an all-Deathwing army, but without the durability... or shooting... or ability to do anything but stand there and get blown to bits for a turn or two.

i would have to imagine a list with 3 pavane DPs and a bunch of flamers would be nasty..

Skarbrand, 80 Demonettes and soul grinders would table or be tabled.

Fateweaver/Masque combo with flamers/BoC DPs. could work. rerollable 3++ is hard to get past.

Tallyman Nurgle list, enough said. 3 DPs with noxious touch and rack up the kills for your troops to take advantage of the bonuses, just keep Epi alive with a huge unit of PBs

i have a feeling all of those will be pretty good. the Skar/Nette horde will absolutely shred through any army it can get into assault with.. even if its only 40 demonettes hitting that guard gunline, its not going to be pretty. the tallyman nurgle armies will be tough to kill and they only get better as the game moves along.

there are some good power builds in the demon codex. but as a tourny army i think they will have trouble, at least one of your games you are likely to get the wrong drop turn one, chances are it will probably be twice (5 round tourny that is.)

lord_sutekh: all Tzeentch armies can shoot the piss out of you, and nurgle demons is probably one of the most durable armies there is.

It is still way too early to tell. It might take around 6 months before we know if there are any good builds out there.

Right now every one is in a building phase, and playing with whatever models they have lying around.

Also some of the reports that I have seen are against questionable opponents, so we can discount some of them.

I will need to see how they do at a big tournament to get a feel for how well they can do in a competitive environment.

Of course even then we might not know how they do, because if you remember the first year Drop Pods came out they were very successful, and then after that they faded rapidly.

Sadly, the playtesters of said codex can tell you it's crap.

They have, in many places on the internet.

Personally I hope everyone buys a demon army for 40k, then sells it on ebay in 6 months for cheap so I can convert it over to fantasy--where a demon army is actually decent.

Blackmoor.

I don't see why it would take 3 months to know if the army is top tier or not. It did not take 3 months to get Snakes one a plane, heck the 185 model orc horde was out in the forums before the Dex.

Though mabye the highly unusual DS deployment will take some time for the power gamers to work out.

Ztryder

Yes I am leaning towards 60 deamonites 3 grinders and skabrand at 1700, but I have my doubts it will be top tier competitive.

Russell wrote:Blackmoor.

I don't see why it would take 3 months to know if the army is top tier or not. It did not take 3 months to get Snakes one a plane, heck the 185 model orc horde was out in the forums before the Dex.

Though mabye the highly unusual DS deployment will take some time for the power gamers to work out.

The Eldar and Ork codexes were only a slight revamp of existing armies. For the most part there were only a few point changes, and some tweaking. So with the old codex as a baseline, we were able to see what units had gotten better, and what units were worse. The play styles did not change, only some units got better, and some got worse. We are also able to isolate the few new units and compare them to the other options.

Since harlequins have every special rule in the book, we can see that they are very good, and the change to the spirit stones made holo-fields made Falcons unkillable.

With Orks we can see that the reduction of the price of an ork boyz to 6 points, is a no brainer, and Lootas are such a good unit because of the firepower that they can put out.

Again to my Drop Pod analogy, it took a while to figure them out.

Demons on the other hand have all new units that have a lot of different combinations that people are just starting to scratch the surface with. Also they deployment and play style so radically different from other armies, that the best use of there deployment rules still needs to be worked out.

Not to be weird but the demon book is a 'new paradigm' in 40k lists, and not only that but it is written for the 5th ed ruleset.

I don't think I would count on beating it with my typical Eldar list, at least not w/o trying it a couple times. Their deep striking rule with their shooty elements makes it different from being just another melee horde.

Presumably their units are a little on the cheap side points-wise, to represent the fact that you can shoot half their army at a time. Not that a non-shooty army really cares if their units are not on the board. As in, shooty terminators are often better not deepstriking, so you can shoot from Turn 1 rather than not being effective until possibly Turn 3 or so.

They will definately help to keep things on the fun side, I think. But only time will tell if they are top tier. I think of them as being like Necrons, who have won at GTs in the past.

I also think they would be much better in the hands of an experienced player. Being able to eye ball measure would be a huge benefit when everything is happening ~12-18".

power list: No , fun game: Yes

Russell wrote:Ztryder

Yes I am leaning towards 60 deamonites 3 grinders and skabrand at 1700, but I have my doubts it will be top tier competitive.

like i said, it would be an army that either tables you or you table it. and it would be a fun list to play i think.

if your going to a GT with an army built to win, i dont think you're going for the right reasons.. for me it makes for a more fullfilling weekend taking a cool themed list that if you know what you're doing will win you games. rather than the push button lists that roll out with the advantage right from the start. i feel like youll have more enjoyable games as well that way. gota love all those nidzilla guys who checked the "I did not paint this army" box.. eBay ftw.

I sure hope I run into you at the Vegas GT. You have just the right kind of attitiude I look for in opponents.

Darrian

A pretty decent list in 5th that one of our guys is using with good results (he will pop up here pretty soon, I reckon) looks like this:

Bloodthirster
Keeper of Secrets (pavane)
3x Tzeentch daemon princes with master of sorcery, bolt and warpfire
2x5 plaguebearers with icon
2x7 plaguebearers with icon
3x3 flamers (maybe just 2x3 - not sure)

and it is usually split up with the monstrous creatures in one half and everything else in the other.

It is VERY hard to do enough wounds to everything right away to deal with the monstrous creatures and the plaguebearers are great at holding objectives.

It is fun to play against and his record is really good right now. As long as the game ends on turn 5 or 6 he wins - it is when it drags on that he has trouble.

I expect his w/l will start to balance a bit more as we get used to it - but yeah, it is really tough. Good shooting, great assault. The Bloodthirster with fleet is a nasty combination (fleet, basically, via the pavane on the unit he wants to charge.)

I go to a GT hoping to play top gamers for the thrill of the challenge. Im glad I got to play Blackmoor and now I just need to play against you Darrian.

I've been doing most of my play with a pretty wimpy proxy Khornate army, but I've proxied up a competitive list a couple times, with excellent results.
2K Daemons List:

Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion, Bolt of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion, Bolt of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion, Bolt of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion, Bolt of Tzeentch
3 Flamers of Tzeentch
3 Flamers of Tzeentch
3 Flamers of Tzeentch
7 Nurglings
7 Nurglings
7 Nurglings
5 Horrors w/Bolt of Tzeentch, Changling
5 Horrors w/Bolt of Tzeentch
5 Horrors w/Bolt of Tzeentch
5 Seekers of Slaanesh
5 Seekers of Slaanesh
5 Seekers of Slaanesh
1 Daemon Prince, Daemonic Gaze, Iron Hide
1 Soulgrinder w/Phlegm upgrade
1 Soulgrinder

I think the biggest thing preventing daemons from being really competative is the metagame. There are some lists that they're going to beat, and some that they'll have serious problems with.

But, the ones that it looks like they have better games against have the ability to add an allied daemonhunter inquisitor w/ mystics. I don't think I've seen an army that has so much trouble against one single selection, and especially not one single selection that can fit in so many different armies.

If daemons start doing too well, it's really not hard for any imperial player to drop the 32 points it takes to turn their shootiest unit into a "Don't deepstrike within 20" of me" marker.