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I saw some sample armies where the daemon troops arent 20 strong for +3 rank bonus - some are 12, some 10. Are those numbers OK or it is better for 15/20 strong? your thoughts? thanks!

Daemons have the same issues as other elite infantry - paying 12 pts/model (or 60 pts/rank) is often too much for the benefit.

If you run them 6 wide in 2 ranks (12 models) you get the choppy goodness of the front rank, a little resilience with the 6 extra models, and enough points to buy a flight of Furies, or some Screamers, or just another small unit of Daemon infantry.

Horrors, of course, may be an exception - their benefit has little to do with the fighting rank, and everything to do with more magic. Even there, though, there are compelling arguments towards multiple smaller units (such as more magic missiles).

Janthkin wrote:Daemons have the same issues as other elite infantry - paying 12 pts/model (or 60 pts/rank) is often too much for the benefit.

If you run them 6 wide in 2 ranks (12 models) you get the choppy goodness of the front rank, a little resilience with the 6 extra models, and enough points to buy a flight of Furies, or some Screamers, or just another small unit of Daemon infantry.

Horrors, of course, may be an exception - their benefit has little to do with the fighting rank, and everything to do with more magic. Even there, though, there are compelling arguments towards multiple smaller units (such as more magic missiles).

ic. for a 2250 army, is it fine to field one 20 daemon unit or more than that?

I think plague bearers also benefit from being taken in ranks, as with a herald attached the 60 points per rank is very very well spent, as that CR pip is sticking around.

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:I think plague bearers also benefit from being taken in ranks, as with a herald attached the 60 points per rank is very very well spent, as that CR pip is sticking around.

- Salvage

It's a good point; I don't play nurgle, so tend not to think along those lines.

shaselai wrote:for a 2250 army, is it fine to field one 20 daemon unit or more than that?

Depends wildly on your theme. For a Tzeentch- or Nurgle-centric army, you'll likely want (at least) one big block. For a Slaaneshi or Khornate army, you might not have any, and run MSU tactics with your faster-moving daemons. For combined forces, mix-and-match. From first impressions, it looks like smaller units of Daemonettes and Bloodletters are preferable, while there are good reasons for larger blocks of Horrors (magic) and Plaguebearers (Anvil).

Janthkin wrote:

Boss_Salvage wrote:I think plague bearers also benefit from being taken in ranks, as with a herald attached the 60 points per rank is very very well spent, as that CR pip is sticking around.

- Salvage

It's a good point; I don't play nurgle, so tend not to think along those lines.

shaselai wrote:for a 2250 army, is it fine to field one 20 daemon unit or more than that?

Depends wildly on your theme. For a Tzeentch- or Nurgle-centric army, you'll likely want (at least) one big block. For a Slaaneshi or Khornate army, you might not have any, and run MSU tactics with your faster-moving daemons. For combined forces, mix-and-match. From first impressions, it looks like smaller units of Daemonettes and Bloodletters are preferable, while there are good reasons for larger blocks of Horrors (magic) and Plaguebearers (Anvil).

I am running tzeentch + others for my army but I am a bit shying away from horrors since I already have 10PD and think people would start calling me cheese if i go over that.. i am thinking of the Anvil though or a strong Khorne unit with herald..

If you've got 10 dice, then you may not have room for a Nurgle Herald, which seriously compromises the value of big blocks of Plaguebearers (no Regeneration).

I'd try 2 12-strong units of Daemonettes and 2 12-strong Bloodletter units. Add some furies, Screamers, and Flamers to taste. The concern is that, without Horrors, your Tzeentch Heralds are running around on their lonesome.

Janthkin wrote:If you've got 10 dice, then you may not have room for a Nurgle Herald, which seriously compromises the value of big blocks of Plaguebearers (no Regeneration).

I'd try 2 12-strong units of Daemonettes and 2 12-strong Bloodletter units. Add some furies, Screamers, and Flamers to taste. The concern is that, without Horrors, your Tzeentch Heralds are running around on their lonesome.

Here's what i got:
Lord:
Kairos 625

Heroes:
2 X tzeentch herald with master of sorcery and wings = 320
Herald of nurgle w/slime and noxious vapours = 150

Core:
15 blood letters w/music + standard =198
15 daem. w/music + standard = 198
19 plaguebearers w/herald as 20th. standard,musician, seeping decay icon 271

5 furies

Rare:
6 flamers w/pyro = 225
6 flamers w/pyro = 225

~2250

I have room for the herald with plaguebearers - i could cut some other units down to 12 and use some for furies whatnot. I actually kind of like your idea of smaller 12 men units for more maneuverability. your thoughts?

If you want to be really nasty with the Nurgle unit, drop the Plague Bearers numbers down and buy your Herald a Palanquin. It adds 6 additional poisoned attacks to your fighting rank and takes up the space as 4 Plague Bearer models for only 50 Points, which IMO, is well worth the investment.

If you want to be really nasty with the Nurgle unit, drop the Plague Bearers numbers down and buy your Herald a Palanquin. It adds 6 additional poisoned attacks to your fighting rank and takes up the space as 4 Plague Bearer models for only 50 Points, which IMO, is well worth the investment.

hell yeah it is!

Lord:
Kairos 625

Heroes:
2 X tzeentch herald with master of sorcery and wings = 320
Herald of nurgle w/slime and noxious vapours = 150

Core:
15 blood letters w/music + standard =198
15 daem. w/music + standard = 198
19 plaguebearers w/herald as 20th. standard,musician, seeping decay icon 271

5 furies

Rare:
6 flamers w/pyro = 225
6 flamers w/pyro = 225

if its underlined i think you should reconsider or alter these IMO.
try and make your army bigger and dont focus on one hit wonders and powerful units cause if these go you up S$%^ creek
as for you core you could have 2 anvils and save the heavy hitters for special and rare

The only units that function well with over 12 models in them are Plaguebarers and Horrors. There is no real need to filed Bloodletters or Daemonettes in anything larger than 12. For those units agility is much more important than numbers.

Also Bloodletters and Daemonettes can function fairly well without a herald in the unit.