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So what still scares a fast moving land raider in the new rules? Particularly one that just deployed smoke launcers. (4+ cover, correct?)

Obviously the rail gun and warp blast are still solid against it. And a carnifex in hth is an issue. But even the ubiquitous lascannon has lost alot of effectiveness against it. Little renders are no longer a problem, and necrons can't get lucky and kill it anymore (though their chances of stopping it are only cut in half).

lance weapons. melta bombs and chain fists. metla weapons in general, for that matter.

uhh. Warboss PK.

does cover work against close combat attacks?

Anything that rolls 2d6 for Armour Penetration.

Chainfists, Monstrous Creaturs, Melta weapons within half range... Less so because of its speed and cover.

things that ignore armor value- haywire grenades and wraithcannons. Dark Lances because you can still fit a TON of them cheaply in DE armies- unless you're talking BT land raiders.

I think his point was, "what SHOOTING stops a LR deploying Smoke"

If you cannot stop it before it gets close, and it's loaded with HtH terminators or some other such HtH nonesense, you might kill it, but not before it satisfies its purpose...to safely get those troops close enough to charge and be effective.

I think the answer can only be...not much.

AP1 weapons is what scares them.
Ordnance AP1 and Melta at half are the most scary, those are likely to penetrate.

Then odds are you're going to be stopped, immobilized is gold vs land raiders in 5th.

jumping out and shouting boo?

HellHammer.....

Crack Shot FD Exarch?

Agree w/ TC as it can be pretty common to see in Eldar armies.

A Firepike may become even more useful to ensure to get the 2d6 penetration roll.

Definitely melta weapons - the net effect of AP 1 is similar to the 4th ed tables (albeit without the "always pen" bonus).

Countercharges.

Because most Land Raiders have been configured in a 'greedy' way with the weapons sponson on the rear fittings it is ridiculously easy to cover all exits before you damage it. Forgwet trying to destroy it, just force a disembark.

The trouble with smoked and fast moving Land Raiders is that you miss out on its rather useful firepower.

Orlanth wrote:Countercharges.

Because most Land Raiders have been configured in a 'greedy' way with the weapons sponson on the rear fittings it is ridiculously easy to cover all exits before you damage it. Forgwet trying to destroy it, just force a disembark.

The trouble with smoked and fast moving Land Raiders is that you miss out on its rather useful firepower.

Disembarking isn't necessarily fatal to the occupants anymore - there are rules for clawing your way out of the wreck. You'd have to completely surround the thing.

Tacobake wrote:lance weapons. melta bombs and chain fists. metla weapons in general, for that matter.

uhh. Warboss PK.

does cover work against close combat attacks?

No. Cover saves apply against shooting only.

Yah, what Yak said. Melta bombs are going to be gold in 5th. Anyone who's had a look at the new book remember what you need to hit vehicles in hand to hand? Is it still something like this or has it changed?

Stationary/immobile = auto hit
Moved at all = 4+
Moved > 6 = 6+
Skimmers = 6+

I recall folks advising the needing to hit a skimmer on a 6 is not there in the new rulebook.

A unit of 9 Sisters Repentia with Misstress and Priest! Can you say Two Handed Chain Swords with rerolls!

Phoenix wrote:Yah, what Yak said. Melta bombs are going to be gold in 5th. Anyone who's had a look at the new book remember what you need to hit vehicles in hand to hand? Is it still something like this or has it changed?

Stationary/immobile = auto hit
Moved at all = 4+
Moved > 6 = 6+
Skimmers = 6+

As I read it skimmers have no special protection against hand to hand attacks, but otherwise you've got it.

Surprisingly Tau fire warriors. In the 500 pts game I run against my brothers Space wolves I use a DFed warrior squad with EMP Grenades to suicide run his landraider. Frankly the result is hilarious.