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So, are they any good? I keep hearing that they are CC monsters, but are they really? Their armor might not be too good but there are ways to combat this. Also, I'm asking because I simply love the look on the models, and because I'm cheap (I don't want to buy models that, in reality, are a let-down, I want to be sure first ).

The effectiveness of kans and dreads is stacking, like a lot of things in 40k. Basically, the more of them you have, the better each one becomes. If you have one dread, it's going to get shot to pieces, but if you take a few, (remember big meks!) then the damage they can deal is brutal. The 'dread bash' list is always fun.

Yeah that's what I heard, also heard that taking the Big Mek with KFF is a good idea, since he can use the KFF to make those Dreads and Kanz "Obscured Targets," not too sure what that gives, but I'm pretty sure its something defensive.

The "Dread Bash" list? That does sound like fun!

Just to remember if you play CSM at all; put 2 CCW on your dreads and place them all together to minimized fire frenzy. If one fire-frenzies it will shoot only be able to shoot a bolter at another dread, ie...nothing. But that is if you really really want to buy them, build them, and field them.

I love Ork Dreads and Killa Kans.
However, they have always performed poorly for me.
I don't bring them anymore, I wish they were better...
They usually (almost always) die before getting into HtH.
I think my problem is they can't keep up with my faster units, so the enemy is usually pushed back from the line.
This only creates a larger gap between the enemy and my Dreads, decreasing their chance to get to HtH.
That's just my experiance with them... hope that's informatice.
Darth Balls, OUT!!!

in 5th Ed, walkers can 'run', so possibly dreads and kans will be a lot more useable.

they are a really appealing idea modelling-wise...

Kans are much, much better now. They're more than twice as survivable, due to 4+ cover saves, a more generous damage table, rending being reduced in effectiveness, and the fact that they can 'run'.

I think we'll see plenty of 9 kan ork armies. In fact, now I want to go point one up!

How's this at 1750:

Bikerklawboss
coversavemekk (and remember, he gives a 4+ to vehicles)

3X30 shootas with dodads
25 shootas with dodads

deffkopta
deffkopta
3 deffkoptas, buzzsaw

3X3 kans.

That's 122 orks, who can all hide behind a wall of 4+ save kans with a little creative modelling. And it's got 25 rokkit shots, more than half at BS3 or better.

Hey now, that's MY 5th Ed Ork list!

I still don't know how good the biker boss will be without some kind of unit to go in, the more I think about it the more I think two KFF Mek's are the way to go. I'd also drop the Koptas for Kommandos, but that's just me.

Getting to the original point, yes, Kanz are going to become amazing. 120 Points buys you three Killa Kanz w/ Big Shootas, and you don't need Armor Plates because you always treat stunned as shaken results for vehicle formation units.

The biker boss joins the unit of 3 koptas John (if he needs to join a unit).

In my test games I just found him to have too much utility to leave out. There are times when he colapses a whole flank on his own. But then again, in these new rules he loses an attack, has no targeting protection, and can't consolidate into another combat, so maybe he is crap.

I didn't realize that about the plates and vehicle squads. Fantastic.

on the other hand, immobilized kans are now destroyed if there's more than one in the squadron. I was thinking they are a little worse.

Not really. Ar11 is paper thin anyway, and now instead of a 4+ to downgrade the pen to a glance it's a 4+ to ignore the damage totally.

look at like this - currently a unit of FW can glance a KK to death, you don't get any protection. Now you get to ignore half of the hits. I haven't had KKs and dreads in my lists for years, but for a change of pace I will definitely have some in 5th edition.

The only thing that pisses me off about Kanz now is that if you roll the stupid Dawn of War mission, they're starting off the table.

And I'm fairly confident the Biker Boss is going to suck since he should be winning most combats handily. You have the option to turn off his PK on the turn you charge, so you may win by 1 or 2, and have a chance that the enemy sticks around, but many times that just won't be the case since I think we will see a lot less LD10 stuff around.

Remember, that mek gives you the option to take a dread as troops...

Then again, those Troop choices will normally be filled with scores of Boyz

Kanz and Dreads...Running? I'm surprised, can't see those guys making the 100-meter dash, then again that's what I said about Necron Warriors when I heard most, if not, all infantry could Run.

2 meks, 2 dredds as Troops, and 3x3 kans with kustom megablastas (presuming vehicles are still immune to Gets Hot in 5th ed), padded out with a shootaboy shooty meatshield in front - sounds a very amusing basis for an army.

Problem for that army is taking objectives. 1 or 2 mobs of boyz isn't that good at holding objectives...

I agree that Kans are going to be scary. Best BS in the army and dirt cheap weapons seems to mean they get to run first turn, then waddle forward spraying the rest of the time. Dropping 9 with a 4+ save is going to be really tough.

If only Penitent engines were that cheap... I would own 9 myself.

Nice to see I made a good investment by buying the Dread Mob boxset back in December.

6 Kans and a Dread will do for me.

However can anyone confirm that in 5th squadrons count as a single target or are they still individual vehicles that happen to move together and are now destroyed on immobilised. The way I am reading this you will get some vehuicle in the squadron with a 4+ and others hanging around the outside. f someone shootas a nearest target in the squadron that is outside no save yes?

It looks liek you may have to bunch your kans very inconveniently in order to make use of the saves, and this will betricky while snaking your mobz to also get the cover.

I am sceptical as to whether KFF Kans will work on the tabletop, but am prepared to be pleasantly suprised.

I find a KFF mek and kans are awesome, they are very hard to beat up in combat because they are walkers, but they also make useful shooting bases, just keep them near the meks so the lascannons dont get them...

I have a question, what exactly does "Obscured Object" mean for a vehicle?

In 4th ed it makes all hits glancing. In 5th ed it means you get a cover save.

They are one unit(with coherency rules), if the mayority is in cover they all are. So its enough to just have 1 within the KFFmek to get obscured (4+ coversave). Also, imobilized = destoryed and stunned are shaken by vehicle squads and run. Whats not to love

Which weapons are good on the Kanz? I'm told that I should get a Kustom Mega-Blasta, but I honestly see the Rokkit Launcha as a more efficient choice, since they have the same strength and don't have to worry about Gets Hot!

Well, it depends on the role.

Big Shootas are anti-infantry, which honestly can be found elsewhere. Other units can make up for their BS2 by putting out lots of shots. However, if you are doing a small army with only walkers and using infantry as support, you will need some anti-infantry. These are also good at keeping your kans cheep, so if they are headed for CC, this is what you should be looking at.

Grotzookas are the same, but they are better at it. Especially with the new blast rules, a squadron of 3 will put out 6 small blasts that will always be on the field.

Scorchas are probably the worst choice for kans. It doesn't utilize their (relatively) high BS, and most likely will get only 1 shot.

Rockits and Kustom Mega-Blastas-very close to the same. Gets Hot doesn't effect vehicles (I guess I'm not possitive in the new edition), so it costs 5 points to go from AP3 to AP2. Some say it is worth it, some say it isn't. If you have the points, it is a good upgrade, especially if you know you may face terminators. The S8 allows them to be tank-hunters, and heavy infantry if you need it. These are usually the most recommended weapons, as it puts the BS3 to good use that is not very availible in the army (accurate, high strength weapons).

Also, the damage chart for Kan squadrons will look like this in 5th:
1-3: Shaken
4: Stunned, down to shaken
5: Armorment destroyed
6: Imobilized, up to destroyed

If you have a big mek with a KFF, you will have a 4+ cover save before rolling on this table. This table might have you lean a little towards Big Shootas, as you expend the minimum points for something that might not see any use.

I think mega blastas are the way to go. Its 15pts per squadron 'just in case' and covers a glaring gap in your defences. after all S8 is not true tank killing power, you need klaws for that. However its 15pts you can strip if needed (and if you magentised weapons).

For dreads skorcha and big shoota.

Mega Blasters are very useful against Armour 2 and command units, But rocket blasts are always good.

I was at GW today and the store was having new rules day kinda thing.
So I was playing a staff army used by some one else and I was using a terrible necron army. It was just an army I put together as staff its got two monoliths and warriors its terrible dont tell me about it, I all ready know.
So I put up a prity good fight and I was quite impressed how the new rules really helped armoured units.
The Ork army had 3 killer kans and a dred as a troop choice.

First off glancing hits can not destroy anything out right. Extra armour meant they just only couldnt shoot and so wouldnt stop moving towards me. Luckly my necrons can damage armour 11 but still couldnt do much and of course boys are comming towards me as well.
Even any penetrating hits can be hard to destroy the bugger on a 5 or 6. So IMO way better then what they used to be in 4th ed rules
But again I had a terrible army and didnt really test them but it looks like they are good fire takers in any case. Of course can shoot some nasty weapons as they run towards you and I sugest extra armour and a RL as all ready poited out. Scorchers is not taking advantage of BS 3 and horde killers can be done with other things.

Also just to add on 1.5k he had a beefy hq unit with a mega nob squad and that just took so much damage it was unreal. Very few things to kill them with kans and dred. Impresive IMO

Arglebooster wrote:Also, the damage chart for Kan squadrons will look like this in 5th:
1-3: Shaken
4: Stunned, down to shaken
5: Armorment destroyed
6: Imobilized, up to destroyed

If you have a big mek with a KFF, you will have a 4+ cover save before rolling on this table. This table might have you lean a little towards Big Shootas, as you expend the minimum points for something that might not see any use.

That's the chart for a Glancing hit. With a Kans armor they will suffer quite a few penetrating hits.

1-2: Shaken
3: Armorment Destroyed
4-6: Destroyed

That isnt right not even in old rules. What about Imobolised?
Might be something I am missing but correct me if I am wrong.

1 stunned (cant shoot)
2 crew shaken (cant move and shoot)
3 weapon destroyed
4 imobolised
5 wrecked
6 blows up

modifiers

-2 to roll to a min of 1 for a glancing hit

+1 ap 1 weapons

-1 ap - weapons (not sure sorry if im wrong)