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I don't know if this is YMTC or not but here it is.

Can WHFB characters cast spells when they are in combat? So say they are in the front rank of a unit, and they survive combat long enough to get to the next magic phase, can they cast spells. And if they can cast spells, what is their LoS? I am assuming their LoS is the unit in front of them, but what about something like targetting terrain that could be larger than the unit.

Basically can say an Orc Shaman smoke the unit he is in combat with with a magic missile spell. And after he does, do they take a break test.

Page 110 in the BRB under the Magic Missiles heading:

"Unless otherwise specified, a Wizard cannot cast these spells if he, or the unit he is with, is engaged in close combat."

LOS is infront of the mage so mages on Dragons have a nice view of their front arc.

As Selestine stated, feel free to cast any spell unless the spell specifically states one can't do so in combat and the spell isn't a magic missile.

thanks.

nikeforever22 wrote:LOS is infront of the mage so mages on Dragons have a nice view of their front arc.

As Selestine stated, feel free to cast any spell unless the spell specifically states one can't do so in combat and the spell isn't a magic missile.

Uhm, I think you took Selestine's answer backwards. I do know there are some exceptions. Skaven can cast spells into close combat and even in close combats in which they are involved due to the "life is cheap" rule and I also think Slann can because of the floating palanquin they ride on. I don't know too many other examples though. IIRC, there is some upgrade for O&G casters that increases their casting value by +2 if they're in close combat, but how would they take advantage of that +1 unless they can cast in close combat? I don't own an O&G army book, so I can't say..

themandudeperson wrote:

nikeforever22 wrote:LOS is infront of the mage so mages on Dragons have a nice view of their front arc.

As Selestine stated, feel free to cast any spell unless the spell specifically states one can't do so in combat and the spell isn't a magic missile.

Uhm, I think you took Selestine's answer backwards. I do know there are some exceptions. Skaven can cast spells into close combat and even in close combats in which they are involved due to the "life is cheap" rule and I also think Slann can because of the floating palanquin they ride on. I don't know too many other examples though. IIRC, there is some upgrade for O&G casters that increases their casting value by +2 if they're in close combat, but how would they take advantage of that +1 unless they can cast in close combat? I don't own an O&G army book, so I can't say..

It goes like this:

IF your mage is in close combat, then

a) He cannot cast a Magic Missile;

b) He cannot cast any spell that specifically says models in CC can't cast it;

c) He CAN cast spells which require LoS, but only at targets he has LoS to; and

d) He CAN cast spells which do not require LoS.

Separately, the normal rule applies: You cannot cast a spell INTO close combat unless the spell description allows it.

correct.

Ok, so correct me if my logic's flawed using the list above:
Unless they're on the flank,in the rear or using some special rule like the Slann's palanquin, if they're in close combat they wouldn't be able to use any LOS required spells due to the facts that the only unit he could see would be the one he's in close combat with and he can't NORMALLY cast into a close combat.

I think he can cast onto models that are in base with him.

Or in the base of Bretonnians when they do that Damsels in Distress thing, uh ... the front rank?

Flank or rear won't help, since characters not in the front rank can't do anything (except Skaven and Slaan). But otherwise, you have it right. Unless you've got spells that can be cast into a combat, or the spell doesn't need LoS, then once you're stuck in, it's hard to target spells.

Models in close combat only block LOS the same way they normally do. So a mage in combat could still see a unit on a hill BEHIND the guys he's fighting, or see a Large Target behind the guys he's fighting, just as easily as if he weren't in combat. And a Slann, who can see like a Large Target, has no problem seeing over smaller models, even ones he's in combat with.

Also, if the mage's unit is wider and he's hanging off the edge, the unblocked portion of the front of his base is still a legal area to draw LOS from.

Themandude- please bear in mind that even a Skaven character in the flank or rear of a ranked unit is not generally going to have better LOS, as when they're attached they have only 90 degree LOS to the front just like everyone else in the unit.

Well, one thing that always confused me about the Skaven is their ability to put characters in the rear rank. WHY? If it's a combat oriented character, you'd want him up front where he can do the most damage. If it's a wizard, you'd want him up front where he'd have LOS to cast spells. Otherwise, you're just throwing them in their for the leadership bonus which is negligible at best. Why use their better leadership to pass break tests when they could be used to help generate more CR in the front rank in addition to lending their leadership?

Depends on what you’re fighting. Even a tooled-up Warlord will get his butt kicked by a tooled-up Chaos Lord or Vampire. Lending Ld7 to the army (boosted to Ld10 by ranks) is more important than fighting if he’s just going to die. BSBs are another classic hero to hide in the back. They’re usually fragile but provide a great benefit to the army.

Well, yeah.. I suppose. The biggest benefit from leading from the rear is choosing which unit goes to the back in a challenge. If anything, a Vampire Lord is going to get challenged by my unit champion or at least, that's who's going to accept the challenge. That way, against any unit outside of a single character will still be vulnerable to the Warlord's attacks. That way he'll add 1-2 CR plus my 5 static CR to help ensure the win against most units. God help the other guy if it's ogre equivalents and I have either the weeping blade or fellblade!
More than likely the Warlord would get bowled over and generate 3-4 overkill CR for the Vampire Lord, that won't change much with a champion instead. I should still be able to draw or at least win by 1-2 if I'm lucky.