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So, I suppose this is sort of old topic, but I've recently just picked up the new HE army book:

There's no real point to picking up silver helms, is there?
It seems if you're really intent on getting a cavalry unit, you might as well just pony up (pun semi-intended) the points for DPs.

I know they moved the Silver Helms from Core to Special with the new book, but am i just missing something or are they just really rather useless now (comparatively)?

~Cheers

pretty usless. there ok, but DP's are much better, and can take a magic standard.

Slightly more expensive than reavers but can do the same basic job but actually pack a punch if needed. Still since you have great eagles to do that job for even less its hard to fit them in for anything other than fluff reasons. DPs are just that much better.

well yeah they aren't quite as good as the Dragon princes but they are considerably cheaper. they got a lot worse tho in the new book because they got moved to special and no upgrades. still they are a fast toguh unit thats cheaper than dragon princes. if you want to save the points i would use them.

I've only seen them used as flankers in the current HE book.

x2 units of 5 with muso (so can bait and flee if need be), 1 unit on each flank.
They will trounce almost any flanking unit in the game and then will start rolling up your opponents flanks.

Personally I'd use DPs in this role as they WILL smash any flanking unit the enemy has to offer excepting banshee and wraiths.

But if points are short they should be used.

As others have said the move to special and the loss of magic banner hurt them more than anything else (plus everything got better)

That was the feeling I was getting that "DPs are better in every way...unless you need to scrounge for points".

Thanks for the replies.

Well, aren't Silver Helms in a plastic box?

There's one reason...

But thier horses = LAME!

I traded in a heap of unopened boxes I won in the last year for best painted and best general wins at tourneys for the BIG all plastic HE army box.

My SHs will be used for their legs.
Bits from the Cothique chariot will fill out the rest of the model for my lion riding white lions...

Rest of the SH bits will be sold off....

I was reading something on another board that was an interesting fix to make them more useful. Obviously it'd be under house rules. Instead of making barding manditory and shield optional, make shield manditory and barding optional. Then you can have M9 cavalry, which might be an edge worth taking.

There are several rules changes that could make them better. Changing rules for a unit isn't tactics. Silver helms have, sadly, been eclipsed. They serve no useful role being surpassed by DPs for heavy cavalry or Illyrians for fast cav. They can't take a magic banner and they aren't very cheap to field. For saving points, go with Tiranoc Chariots. Cheap scud missile.

They are still playable if you think of how they used to be played...a unit of 10 with warbanner housing a BSB is a great central unit that can beat most things quite easily head on, and whereas DPs would not only be overkill but expensive, this unit is neither.

Basically, helms dont fit into the way many people are playing HE (MSU hittiness to the max) but for players who want to field larger units, with more centralised power rather than the erratic, helms are still a very solid choice.

I see what you mean, fazz. It does seem, given the stat-line of the helms, that you wouldn't want to run them in min-sized units, rather bulking them up with the ~30% lower points cost.

I suppose the main issue I'm having is gauging how big of an effect and extra 9pts/model makes in wfb. I'm not terribly familiar with the costs/armaments of any other units (whereas it's quite a bit easier, imo, to compare value of a unit in 40k to the standard marine). It just seems, to me, on a model by model comparison, the DPs advantages outweigh the points difference (unless squeezing points in the army list is a priority).

Again, I haven't quite got a grasp on how points relatively balance out in wfb, so I could just be evaluating things incorrectly (or rather, less correctly).

I suppose this is starting to become less of a discussion on tactics and more about list-building. Oops.

In an attempt to make it about tactics:

So assuming one were to choose to use silver helms (let's also assume we've discounted the use of Dragon Princes), what would be the most effective way of using them?
Seems like there's the option to take them in small units as flankers or bigger units as main-line attackers.

As others have mentioned, 5 with the armour upgrades and a musician are solid at 122 points a unit, 30 points cheaper than the same DP unit and will perform their function just as well - killing fast cavalry, skirmishers, mage hunting and flanking. They are cheaper to sacrifice as necessary as well.

The important thing to remember is that those points saved really can be game winning in WHFB - the above example buys you an additional dispel scroll, which may save you. A couple of savings here and there equate to an eagle, a magic item or something else and so on. If you dont NEED to spend the points onan upgrade, dont, get something else.

With that in mind, I view silverhelms as a good way to get mobile CR into your list. 9/10+BSB, giving the helms a warbanner should give you a unit with +5CR for a fairly low cost, with high resilience and excellent board control. They can then be used to easily steam roll key enemy units - the consideration here been that a similarly priced unit of DPs will not have the same sort of initial CR (you wont have a rank or outnumber), so despite their higher killiing power, basically you're at the whim of the dice gods - roll badly and see how you go. The Silver Helm unit lessens that.

Another consideration is that against ranged attacks, characters and spells, they both die just as easily, so if you can deny your opponent 9 points per dice roll, its never a bad thing.

It comes down to how you want to play - if a mobile CR bus appeals, give them a shot. DPs certainly do play the overall MSU game quite a bit better, given their leadership and more attacks per frontage.

Hope this helps.