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Saw something earlier of someone mentioning you dont have to choose your combi-weapons additional part before the game starts?
What do pepole really think about this? Imo it sounds abit bogus esp with WYSISYG but if you model some strange stuff on your models that people cant classify.. can you really change it depening on situations?

In the older codexes (e.g., Space Marines, Witch Hunters), absolutely not. Each type of combi-weapon is listed separately in the armoury, and if you choose to arm a model with one, you clearly have to choose which one.

In some of the newer codexes, I guess I can see where this kind of rules lawyering could come from. Looking at the CSM codex, in the army list options, models are simply given "a combi-weapon" for a single points cost. I suppose some may have concluded that this means that you don't have to decide what kind of combi-weapon you've bought at the time of army list construction.

However, the wargear entry for combi-weapon does specify that it is a bolter houses "another" weapon, and that "the" extra weapon gets one shot. It then lists the different types of combi-weapons. It seems clear to me that you pick ONE of those types of combi-weapons when you buy this particularly piece of wargear.

If this is not the case, then there are no rules for when and how the choice gets made, and the weapon is essentially unplayable.

I think that this falls into sportsmanship land. Its like most cases where you can use RAW to get kind of a sneaky advantage, or result. For the sake of not weirding out your opponent, you should avoid doing this. That is my 2 cents anyway.

I've had opponents try it on me.
They say, but ALL of the combis are the same points, so why do I need to declare it?

My reply is usually something along the lines of "because it would stop you being such a git."

The principle of WYSIWYG ought to stop people trying that kind of crap. Plainly if something isn't on the model, it should not have it. Therefore what combi-weapon a model carries should be absolutely clear simply by looking at it.

Or at least written down in an army list.

chromedog wrote:I've had opponents try it on me.
They say, but ALL of the combis are the same points, so why do I need to declare it?

My reply is usually something along the lines of "because it would stop you being such a git."

The reply should be more along the lines of "This character has 50 points of wargear. Why should I have to declair what it is?" This isn't fantasy where magic items are kept secrete (and must be on your army list anyway). You bought a combi weapon that comes with an extra weapon, if you don't have it written down as which one you got and it isn't modeled on your guy, I'm going to call it on you.

It is extremely simple. WYSIWYG provides the answer.

You look at his model and say; "I sorry, but it isn't clear to me what that weapons represents. Could you please tell me what it is?".

I am just being polite here. I could just say; "Tell me what that weapons represents!"

Pick the one that gives you the best milage.

Steelmage99 wrote:It is extremely simple. WYSIWYG provides the answer.

You look at his model and say; "I sorry, but it isn't clear to me what that weapons represents. Could you please tell me what it is?".

I am just being polite here. I could just say; "Tell me what that weapons represents!"

Pick the one that gives you the best milage.

If the guy says: Its a combi-weapon, bought from this list. What to say?

The real problem is in a tournament when the guy answers combi-plasma if he faces MEQ, combi-melta if there are a lots of tanks and combi-flamer for hordes. And yes, they are custom made.

You are right. We cannot prevent him from cheating in that way, but we can keep him from changing his mind midgame.

Kallbrand wrote:
If the guy says: Its a combi-weapon, bought from this list. What to say?

The real problem is in a tournament when the guy answers combi-plasma if he faces MEQ, combi-melta if there are a lots of tanks and combi-flamer for hordes. And yes, they are custom made.

Ask him to tell you what the profile is of a generic combi-weapon is.

We are still stuck with the same problem.He doesn't make his decision before we ask him, which is right before the game starts.

My reply (and it mirrors some of the others):

- The flexibility provided, to chaos terminators in particular, by a generic "combi-weapon" is awesome. Being able to have the same unit work against hordes, MEQ, tanks, etc...

- That being said, I went the extra mile to model additional models with the variant combi-weapons, so I could pull out of my case whatever the situation called for. I don't have generic one-weapons-means-all-I'm-a-cheap-bastard terminators.

- For the rat bastard who pulls out the "oh, this tau bit I put on my terminator is a cooooombiiii...ummmmmm...plasma, yeah!" line, finish the game as quickly as possible and never play him again.

- For the same guy, but in a tournament setting, ask to see his list, before the game. That's what lists are for. And when you see combi-weapon on said list, ask him politely "so, what is your combi-weapon conversion representing this game?" If his answer or behavior is unsatisfactory, involve a judge, it's what they're for.

Strangely enough, in the codex where it gives diagrams of all weapons, there is only a "combi bolter" diagram - no Combi-melta or Combi-plasma. Furthermore, no combi-plasma is included in the Chaos Terminator box.

In my area, typically the Terminators just have "combi bolters" on the models. The army list for a given battle will define what they are. I've never seen anyone switch out the weapons in mid-tournament but I wouldn't have much problem with it. I see it much like Whirlwind ammo selection. Just don't change the nature of the weapon in the middle of a battle.

I don't know about other places, but our particular grey knight stated that army lists for tounraments needed to be exact so you had to fight with an identical list of weapons and troops every game, nothing that could be "debated" as he put it, so I guess that this was out.

Are we talking about choosing the actual combi part during say turn 3 when you really could use a flamer to get rid of a bunch of pesky gretchin and thus you declare your combi weapon a combi flamer or are we talking not having it defined untill just before you start the game ie, just before you roll for who sets up first you say... oh btw all my combi weapons are flamers apart from this one that is a melta.

If they try to argue the former then they could do the same for alot of other stuff, why would you have to declare wich unit has the frag grenades, its the same points value and you do not have to display them on the model...

The second I would be fine with, as long as they are defined before the game starts Im good.

Actually I have pulled some fun fast ones against unsportsmanlike oponents, my favorite was against a buddy who always wanted to know what he was to fight against upp to the point of wanting to see the list before he started building his.

Naturally we started using the rule that you dont have to show your list untill the game starts. Good rule.

I then "accidently" left a statted out SM army on the gaming table and had to "step out for a bit". Naturally he checked what my army was to be and quickly modded his army to take out an army with lots and lots of AP3 weapons to blast me to smithereens.

The look on his fcae was priceless when I after he confidently had shown off what he was going to use started placing orks on the table.

He stopped trying to second guess me at that point

I think the idea of being able to pick which weapon they have before hand would be a great asset (and actually make the combi weapon a little more versatile)

The analogy to the whirlwind is good,
you pick the missile type at the start of the battle (you don't declare on the first shot or in the case of combi weapons on the only shot)

As for tornies, I would say WYSIWYG has to be followed, if you want different combinations of combi-weapons, you need to have them modelled (and hence bring all of them) If not, then you are stuck with the choice that you have modelled with.

Oh and Fester,
I love the switch! I hate armies designed specifically for games (and not just generally made)