Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

OK, I was thinking about this today, and I was wonder ing what you all thought of how this would work. This is a defense vs all deepstike armies when you have the first turn, so it is not an "auto-win" button, but it is an interesting defense for armies that have everything deepstrike not including droppod assault armies.

The goal here is to force the maximum amount of deepstike mishaps possible, by denying the opponent a place to deepstike on the entire table.

For the sake of the example we are going to look at this 1750 point army. This is not about this specific army list, more about the tactics therin, the list may be altered to your discretion if you wish

HQ Farseer Jet bike, runes of warding, runes of witnessing, spirit stones, singing spear, Guide, mind war, fortune, doom + 4 bike warlocks 3 with singing spears, 3 destructor one with enhance - 465

Troops
3 man jetbike squad + shuriken cannon + warlock + singing spear + destructor
3 man jetbike squad + shuriken cannon + warlock + singing spear + destructor
3 man jetbike squad + shuriken cannon + warlock + singing spear + destructor
3 man jetbike squad + shuriken cannon + warlock + singing spear + destructor
3 man jetbike squad + shuriken cannon + warlock + singing spear + destructor
3 man jetbike squad + shuriken cannon + warlock + singing spear + destructor


Fast attack
5 man Shining spear squad + exarch + star lance + withdraw+ skilled rider - 237
5 man Shining spear squad + exarch + star lance + withdraw+ skilled rider - 237

Eldar player wins the coin toss and elects to go 1st vs chaos demons. The entire army hits turnbo boosters and takes this formation in the center of the battlefield.

Formation begins as follows
J=jetbike guardian
W=warlock
S=shining spear
F=farseer
each - represents one inch
each space down represents one inch


----------------W--J--J--J------W--J--J--J------J--J--J--W----------------







------------S--S--S--S--S------W--W--F--W--W------J--J--J--W------------






----------------W--J--J--J------W--J--J--J------J--J--J--W----------------


So, now with this formation, each squad is spaceed 2" apart and is exactly 6" away from all the other squads in the army, effectivly covering a rectangle of 18" by 44" (the center line bulges out a bit more for 49")

So there is at most a 4" gap in between units, in a 18" by 44" rectangle, which means that when the demons deep strike in, they have two choices:

Try to deepstrike in between the spaces of the Jetbikes, but if they get an arrow, even a deviation of 2" will take then within 1" of a model, forcing a deepstrike mishap. basically if the opponent does not roll a "Hit" it will most likely be a mishap, so around a 2/3 chance (it's actually less than this, but not by much and would take a lot of math to figure out and describe, so 2/3rds is a nice round number)

Or he can deploy along the edges. but there is 15" clearance on the two long table edges and 16" clearance on the short table edges, which means in order to minimize the chance of a mishap he will have to deply 7" or 8" away from you, and the edge of the table, which means if he rolls an arrow and rolls over 6" (7" for short edge) there again will be a mishap. But best of all, if the unit DOES come in, they will be terribly out of position.

Plus there is so little room to maneuver, that if they take the 19 unit demon army ala stelek, there will be fewer and fewer safe places to place your units as some of the units will make it onto the table safely. you can also use you ability to place some of the units that mishap in some of hte few "safe" spots on the battlefield.

Also if the opponent brings lots of Tzeench, you still have a 3+ cover save to protect you, and are in a great position to begin assaulting next turn.

this will also work for Deathwing and Lysander's wing (if anyone actually plays those armies anymore).

what do you all think? Would this work?

So this is more like abusing a rule for gain than it is a tactic.

Yes, I suppose it would work...but I think you'd end up with a black eye.

Unless you're a big imposing scary gamer (I don't know many) then I guess you'll end up getting a bat to the head.

I guess my question is--can that army beat another army? It doesn't scare me.

Speaking of Tzeentch, chaos flamers bypass your cover save and your armor save. Just something to keep in mind.

So yes. It will work.

Then your friends will call you a and not play ya for a bit.

Wee!

yeah, I will agree with you that it is akin to the "voodoo formation" in sportsmanship.

EDIT: This will also work with the all infiltrating SM army, if you roll the correct deployment.

Trying to annoy your opponent with a rule not really intended for that purpose usually gets you slapped with a trout.

Cover saves are intended to work this way, sadly, so I can't compare them.

Basically you're intentionally making it so your opponent cannot play his army as intended, so he won't have any fun.

I've been on the receiving end of that several times. There's nothing nice or fun about it.

Dirty pool is still dirty, man.

I can't speak for the Chaos Demon rules, but as a Deathwing player, I can say that if you set up like this, I'd just choose to not deepstrike. You'd outnumber an average DW or Lysander Wing army, but not by much. And while you've got the shuriken cannons that I'd be concerned about, I'm not too worried about the shuricat fire.

Would it keep me from deepstriking? Yeah. Would it put me out? Not too much, no. I've footslogged DW often enough in bad situations to not be too worried if I faced something like this. It takes away one of the DW's force multipliers that helps them, but it wouldn't cripple the army.

Stelek wrote:Trying to annoy your opponent with a rule not really intended for that purpose usually gets you slapped with a trout.

Cover saves are intended to work this way, sadly, so I can't compare them.

Basically you're intentionally making it so your opponent cannot play his army as intended, so he won't have any fun.

I've been on the receiving end of that several times. There's nothing nice or fun about it.

Dirty pool is still dirty, man.

I agree completely, this is not a fun, good, rules abuse to be used in friendly games in any stretch of the imagination.

I disagree with you that the designers intended to allow the "voodoo" formation. It's a rules abuse, pure and simple.

Death By Monkeys wrote:I can't speak for the Chaos Demon rules, but as a Deathwing player, I can say that if you set up like this, I'd just choose to not deepstrike. You'd outnumber an average DW or Lysander Wing army, but not by much. And while you've got the shuriken cannons that I'd be concerned about, I'm not too worried about the shuricat fire.

Would it keep me from deepstriking? Yeah. Would it put me out? Not too much, no. I've footslogged DW often enough in bad situations to not be too worried if I faced something like this. It takes away one of the DW's force multipliers that helps them, but it wouldn't cripple the army.

this formation is taken after the first turn has begun and you have already chosen whether or not to deep strike.

@Sushicaddy, I think it could work. However, I would not try it in a competitive game. But, I am VERY sure that I would not get "a bat to the head" or "slapped by a trout." if I did try it. I would probably get a zero in sportsmanship though.

Darrian

Darrian13 wrote:@Sushicaddy, I think it could work. However, I would not try it in a competitive game. But, I am VERY sure that I would not get "a bat to the head" or "slapped by a trout." if I did try it. I would probably get a zero in sportsmanship though.

Darrian

you ARE the Brute squad, Darrian.

I would only do something like this in an 'ard boys tourney.

the Zero in sortsmanship, and the desire not to be a raving dick would keep me from using this against someone in any other context.

You wont be facing demons there very much im afraid, at least not in the winning end of high competative.

And it will be about as usual with demons, with some lucky rolls they will be really bad news othervise it would be set for a win.

Most pepole ive seen run flamer suicide squads anyway.