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Okay, this issue came up in a couple recent games with my friend, a nids player.

A hormagaunt unit has just had it's synapsis shot out from under it (in this case a zornthrope), so now it is their turn. My friend wants to move them, fails his leadership test, so falls back towards the nearest synapsis creature 3d6 (in this case a hive tyrant in the middle of the battlefield), since they are beasts. This move puts them about 3" from by ork mob, and about 6" from the hive tyrant.

The question is: when do they rally?

The codex says (p 28) "Note that since regrouping only takes place at the start of the turn, a Tyranid unit that falls back can be destroyed by pursuers or be becoming trapped. A Tyranid brood that enters Synapse range may rally regardless of the usual restrictions (enemy models within 6", etc.)"

I assume that that etc. only includes under 50%, and any other restrictions to prevent regrouping at the beginning of the movement phase, while my friend assumes that they rally regardless of the restriction of the time. I asked some other nid players at the store, and they seemed to think that I was correct (the hormagaunts couldn't charge).

So, was I right? Any other parts of the rules that would change this?

I play Tyranids. I have always played that they rally during the time that rallying is allowed.

However, I totally understand the point mentioned, if you assume that only rallying occuring only at a given time is one of the restrictions that would stop them - which is the way I read it first.

shrug

The key words are in the rule you quoted. "A Tyranid brood that enters Synapse range may rally...". This implies that once that brood moves into range of the Hive Tyrant, they rally automatically even after initially failing to do so and thus may act normally during their turn, except for anything during the movement phase which has already been accounted for by their fleeing move. This auto rallying is done out of the normal sequence for rallying fleeing troops and thats why its a special rule for 'nids. At least this is my take on it, as I don't play 'nids and rarely play against them, and only have the codex and rulebook to rely on.

DaBoss wrote:The key words are in the rule you quoted. "A Tyranid brood that enters Synapse range may rally...". This implies that once that brood moves into range of the Hive Tyrant, they rally automatically even after initially failing to do so and thus may act normally during their turn, except for anything during the movement phase which has already been accounted for by their fleeing move. This auto rallying is done out of the normal sequence for rallying fleeing troops and thats why its a special rule for 'nids. At least this is my take on it, as I don't play 'nids and rarely play against them, and only have the codex and rulebook to rely on.

I'm sorry, but this is completely incorrect. The Synapse rules even clearly state that regrouping only takes place at the start of the turn so a unit of gaunts that falls back can still be destroyed even if it falls back within synapse range. Also, if an enemy unit wipes out the Synapse creature before the start of the next Tyranid turn there will be no Synapse present when it comes time for the gaunts to normally attempt to regroup (the start of their turn).

The fact is, Synapse only provides non-Synpase creatures 3 things if they are within Synapse range:

1) They never fall back.
2) They automatically pass all Ld-based tests (other than psychic tests and target priority).
3) A Tyranid brood that enters Synapse range may rally regardless of the usual restrictions (enemy models within 6", etc).


So yes, Synpase allows creatures to ignore the usual restrictions to regrouping (being under 50", enemies within 6", not in coherency) but the rule doesn't expressly allow them to regroup outside of the start of the turn when units normally test to regroup and in fact the rule does actually specifically mention that regrouping only takes place at the start of the turn.


In the case of the original question:

The unit does not regroup until the start of its next turn, if it is still within Synapse range at that point it will automatically regroup, otherwise it will have to test to regroup on its Ld value like any other unit.

Ok so the real question is, WHY does it matter "when" they rally?

They are already broken, so you cannot "break" them again.

If you try to snipe them...uhhh...ok I'll just let you pin me. Yay! I unpin automagically.

If you assault me, I automagically rally and fight.

So, in truth...it only matters if there won't be another game turn played.

In which case, they count as broken at end of game and thus destroyed/non-scoring.

That is the ONLY time it matters.

Arglebooster wrote:Okay, this issue came up in a couple recent games with my friend, a nids player.

A hormagaunt unit has just had it's synapsis shot out from under it (in this case a zornthrope), so now it is their turn. My friend wants to move them, fails his leadership test, so falls back towards the nearest synapsis creature 3d6 (in this case a hive tyrant in the middle of the battlefield), since they are beasts. This move puts them about 3" from by ork mob, and about 6" from the hive tyrant.

The question is: when do they rally?

The codex says (p 28) "Note that since regrouping only takes place at the start of the turn, a Tyranid unit that falls back can be destroyed by pursuers or be becoming trapped. A Tyranid brood that enters Synapse range may rally regardless of the usual restrictions (enemy models within 6", etc.)"

I assume that that etc. only includes under 50%, and any other restrictions to prevent regrouping at the beginning of the movement phase, while my friend assumes that they rally regardless of the restriction of the time. I asked some other nid players at the store, and they seemed to think that I was correct (the hormagaunts couldn't charge).

So, was I right? Any other parts of the rules that would change this?

Oh my above post was directed at Yak, not you.

Yes, you are correct.

They cannot rally then charge you.

However, it is a neat trick to get hormagaunts moving towards the enemy. I used to do it all the time, but people whined when my hormagaunts moved 24" in turn 1.

So I stopped.

Sorry for my misinterpretation. Assumed "may rally regardless of the usual restrictions (enemy models within 6", etc.)" also included standard regrouping order in the turn sequence. At first glance, I assumed it meant once you get within that synapse range, you auto rally and as per the regrouping rules, can thus act normally during that turn. See now the "restrictions" they are referring to are only the bullet points in the Regrouping section. Thanks for the clarification.

One a side note, since the rally check happens "just before they move" in the movement phase, which refers to the unit falling back, can you just move a Synapse creature into range, then auto rally the squad in the same phase?

DaBoss wrote:
One a side note, since the rally check happens "just before they move" in the movement phase, which refers to the unit falling back, can you just move a Synapse creature into range, then auto rally the squad in the same phase?

You're referring to v5. In 4th edition tests to regroup happened at the start of the turn (a concept that they're happily getting away from now).

So yes, in 5th edition since tests to regroup happen before you move the unit in question it certainly appears as though you could move a Synapse creature into range before moving the unit that was falling back thereby allowing them to auto-regroup.

But I would guess that many players will have a hard time accepting this change since it isn't clearly spelled out as a change in the rules. I think most people will continue to move their falling back units before moving their regular moves.

Thank you for all your answers, this is very close to the conversation I had, so it is good to know we are using the correct arguments, and are just stubborn, so we don't accept the other person's argument.