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So I'm aiming for a very competitive 5th edition Eldar list and I'm having a few difficulties. I haven't play tested it yet, but also haven't written a list that I feel is good enough to stand up to other competitive lists. Anyhow, I'm not set on this list by any means, just tossing it out there.
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HQ:
Farseer - Guide - Singing Spear
-98

Troops:
Dire Avengers x9
Exarch - Dual Catapults - Blade Storm
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Shuriken Cannons, Catapults
-262

Dire Avengers x9
Exarch - Dual Catapults - Blade Storm
Wave Serpent - Spirit Stones - Shuriken Cannons, Catapults
-262

Pathfinders x6
-144

Pathfinders x6
-144

Fast Attack:
Vyper - Missle Launcher
-65

Vyper - Missle Launcher
-65

Heavy Support:
Fire Prism - HoloFields, Spirit Stones
-160

Fire Prism - HoloFields, Spirit Stones
-160

Fire Prism - HoloFields, Spirit Stones
-160

Total: 1500
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My Farseer will hang back with a Pathfinder crew giving them extra chances at AP1 shots with Guide and maybe lob his spear at something coming too close. I had three points to spend, might come in handy one day. My Pathfinders will sit on objectives and enjoy their 2+ saves while picking away at smaller squads, Monstrous Creatures, etc. I'm not sure what to do with the Dire Avengers. With this setup, they hop out of the Serpent and Bladestorm something, jumping back into the Serpent on the next turn and fly elsewhere to do it again.

To be honest, though, I'm at a loss with Dire Avengers. The codex saw fit to give them broken Storm Bolters, leaving them within range to be assaulted by anyone with Fleet or a Jump Pack. Bladestorm seems good on paper, but mathammering it seems mediocre at best. 33 shots, 22 hits, 11 wounds against T4 (Marines, Orks, Genestealers). 3-4 dead marines, not enough to kill an assault squad. 5-6 dead Carapace Stealers, 11 dead if no armor upgrade. Orks... well, 11 dead orks just won't cut it. To be fair, I did leave out the Serpent's shots, so let's add those in. At full range to hopefully keep the Avengers out of assault, I only get the Cannon shots, so 2-3 hits, 2-3 wounds, a dead Marine, 2-3 dead Stealers or Orks.

Seems like their best use is to drop off at full 18" range, use Bladestorm if two rounds of shooting won't kill the target, or if softening the enemy for a charge. WS4 and I5 seem nice for assaults, but S3, T3, and A1 are terrible. Assaulting with Avengers seems more a last ditch effort to prevent being charged and keep them from getting shot during the opponent's turn, assuming you win the assault on their turn.

Would I be better off with Guardians and some heavy weapons platforms? I feel the Avengers might be better considering they're far more aggressive in nature and I already have Pathfinders to sit on objectives. One thing I'm concerned about is people making it into assault range against the Pathfinders, where their great cover save will account for nothing. I guess between the Avengers and plentiful blast templates, it's more a matter of target priority to keep that from happening?

Anyhow, moving on to the skimmers. The Vypers seem like fun little glass cannons, so just blast at people at full range of the Missle Launchers. S4 AP4 blasts that no longer miss, simply deviate seems pretty nice, or can switch to Krak to pop tanks and Monstrous Creatures.

Fire Prisms, keep out of firing range, behind what cover is available, and blast the ever living crap out of anything that moves taking priority on things that can fire back.

Well, what do you think? Again, I'm more than happy to change anything on the list and consider any suggestions you might put forth.

Just thought I'd throw out some encouragement before work, not really sure what sort of playstyle you prefer.

- You've succesfully shown why most people (read: anyone who's done the math, like you) knows that Dire Avengers are crap. The next step on the path to recovery is not using them!

- Vypers survive far longer than you'd expect if you keep them at greater than 30" from the enemy. Or turbo-flank them so the enemy has to shoot through some of his own units to hit you while you take side shots at his vehicles.

There are lots of routes you can take. The list as it stands is decent. I don't think there is a whole lot you can do to optimize it at this point without reworking the whole thing. I would suggest reworking your strategy just slightly though. While the avengers are not going to do much on their own (as you’ve seen), they are a decent mop up unit. So if you want to use them, here’s how I would do it. On the first turn or two, depending on battle field conditions, I would keep their wave serpents back and behind cover. Minimize the fire they are going to take. In the mean time, light up as much of the enemy army as possible with your template weapons. Once a good chunk of their forward units have large holes blasted in them, then you can fly in the avengers to mop up. Killing 3-4 marines, 4-5 stealers, or 11 orcs isn’t a problem when that’s all that are left near you.

You may also want to reconsider where you put your farseer. Casting guide on the pathfinders (6 shots at BS4) isn’t going to help you all that much. Putting the farseer with the dire avengers where you can guide (or doom) 33 shots is going to pay off far more.

Phoenix wrote:I don't think there is a whole lot you can do to optimize it at this point without reworking the whole thing.

Perfectly happy doing that, by the way.

Phoenix wrote:I would suggest reworking your strategy just slightly though. While the avengers are not going to do much on their own (as you’ve seen), they are a decent mop up unit. So if you want to use them, here’s how I would do it...

I wouldn't say "want to" as much as "are Guardians really better?" Given how bad Avengers seem to be outside of mopping up (good points, though, honestly hadn't considered that tactic), I guess Guardians really must be.

Phoenix wrote:You may also want to reconsider where you put your farseer. Casting guide on the pathfinders (6 shots at BS4) isn’t going to help you all that much. Putting the farseer with the dire avengers where you can guide (or doom) 33 shots is going to pay off far more.

Good point once more, but doesn't that pose problems with the whole transport thing? Can't use psychic powers in the transport, and it's too late to do so after departing, from what I understand, at least.

zmc wrote:Not really sure what sort of playstyle you prefer.

Honestly? The kind that wins. Not because I like powerhousing and cheesing people to death, but the game isn't any fun when a properly made Marine/CSM/Zilla/etc list consistently stomps you into the ground. In case you hadn't gathered, that's what people play for the most part around here. I don't want to build specifically to take out certain lists, as I'm sure an all-sniper list would decimate a Zilla game, but I do want to be able to handle the toughest opponents.

zmc wrote:
- You've succesfully shown why most people (read: anyone who's done the math, like you) knows that Dire Avengers are crap. The next step on the path to recovery is not using them!

- Vypers survive far longer than you'd expect if you keep them at greater than 30" from the enemy. Or turbo-flank them so the enemy has to shoot through some of his own units to hit you while you take side shots at his vehicles.

Duly noted.

So! Taking that advice, going to put together a new list, more Vypers and trying out Guardians. I didn't see any laments about my trio of Prisms or my Pathfinders, so they'll likely stick around.

I'd keep the Dire Avengers.
They just need to be used carefully; speed is the Eldar's armour.
The Farseer is a bit questionable. I don't know whether in the 5th ed,
a Psyker can cast a power inside of a transport; I guess not.
Fortuning Fire Prisms would be more useful than guiding Pathfinders.

Kirbinator wrote:

Phoenix wrote:I would suggest reworking your strategy just slightly though. While the avengers are not going to do much on their own (as you’ve seen), they are a decent mop up unit. So if you want to use them, here’s how I would do it...

I wouldn't say "want to" as much as "are Guardians really better?" Given how bad Avengers seem to be outside of mopping up (good points, though, honestly hadn't considered that tactic), I guess Guardians really must be.

Guardians have a different style of usage all together. With dire avengers, you can fly up into the faces of your enemy (sort of), dish out a reasonable amount of damage and take a bit of retaliation. Guardians have none of those options open to them (at least not effectively). With guardians, the way to use them best is to have them hang back and shoot at incomming enemies with heavy weapons. Then when the enemy gets really close, move up and dish out some short range punishment with shuriken catapults. Guardians, however, can not take punishment like the dire avengers can. Just about every gun in the game removes their armor save and at BS3 and lacking blade storm, they do not do anywhere near as much damage with their catapults as avengers do. On the bright side, they cost 4 points less each and have heavy weapons. Guardians also make for good speed bumps for incomming assault units. The guardians are cheep enough and frail enough that you can sacrifice them and then light up the enemy assaulters on the next turn. My army focuses on long range shooting and I find that guardians fit into my play style much better than avengers do.

Phoenix wrote:You may also want to reconsider where you put your farseer. Casting guide on the pathfinders (6 shots at BS4) isn’t going to help you all that much. Putting the farseer with the dire avengers where you can guide (or doom) 33 shots is going to pay off far more.

Good point once more, but doesn't that pose problems with the whole transport thing? Can't use psychic powers in the transport, and it's too late to do so after departing, from what I understand, at least.

True enough and a very valid point. I didn't think about that when I made the suggestion.