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I am new to fifth edition and Eldar. I was scanning the codex, and had some interesting thoughts with 5th ed rules.
Dark reapers- The reaper launchers are good against MEQs, but their exarch really shines with the tempest launcher and crack shot. With all the cover, two AP 3 blast templates ignoring cover and scattering 2d6-5 is not horrible. The EML adds anti tank, but holds back the rest of the squad.
Fire Prisms- Unless taken in mass, not worth it. The large blast is good against horde, but with new template rules for vehicles, its anti tank capabilities are shot.
Falcon- the falcon acts IMHO as a heavily equipped transport. It lost some survivability since 4th ed, but its killing power is still prevalent. It can be equipped anti tank or anti infantry, and is extremely versatile. If played well, it can be devastating.
War Walkers- these are great versatile vehicles. Equipped correctly, and deployed behind cover, the can spend the entire game in cover blasting away at the enemy. The EML is a very good weapon for its versatility and anti infantry as well as anti tank. The scatter laser is also a very capable weapon. In small one to two vehicle units they are very survivable and fewer walkers will be taken out by immobilized.
Support Squad- the D-cannon is a good multi-propose unit that is unaffected by the vehicle template rules. It is also an MEQ killer, and can take out terminators with ease. They lack the survivability of other units, but the need not see their target, so they can be put out of LOS. The vibro cannon holds little over the D-cannon IMHO.

Please correct any wrong inferences, and add any inferences of your own.

I agree about the dark reapers - an exarch with a tempest launcher and crack shot is fantastic. I'm not sure what I think about falcons and fire prisms in fifth, but I'm fairly sure we'll be seeing fewer falcons and more wave serpents.

You're right that war walkers put out a lot of fire power, but you're wrong about them being survivable. Cover will be hard to come by, since it requires that half the model be obstructed, and even with cover, AV10 is easy to penetrate. There's a thread about war walkers in this forum.

Vibrocannons take a big hit in fifth. The auto-glance was nice in 4th, but with no AP value, the best a vibrocannon can hope for in 5ed is a weapon destroyed result, and that's on a 6. Usually it will just shake a tank. D-cannons have range problems, and a scatter of 2D6 is awful for a small blast marker. If the gunners can see their target it will be 2D6-3, which is somewhat better, but still not good.

Is there any particular reason you skipped wraithlords? They're not wonderful, but with the falcon losing its status as the clear Eldar HS choice, I think we might see a few. I still pine for the days when wraithlords (or Eldar dreadnaughts, as they were once known) could take D-cannons.

Are you serious? Wraithlords so-so?

With run, the new[er] Wraithsword option, and screening, tough-as-nails Wraithguard, this combo will officially be as beastly as it was in early 3rd edition... (okay, it wasn't that beastly but it was fun to screen Wraithlords that way...and now it's actually viable)

I will be moving away from Falcons...with the 4+ SMF rule and the wave shield, Wave Serpents got a significant survivability boost from 4th. They'll no longer be 140 point wrecks waiting to happen...but that's neither here nor there.

Back to heavy support, I think that Run (assuming they can run) also made D-cannons more viable (can artillery run in 5th?)

Dark Reapers will still remain my personal favorite, as the Exarch's Crack Shot power with the missile launcher now makes him uber-killy, although I personally disdain the idea of the tempest because of the 36" range (although it's still very viable). Haven't used the tempest myself, so I could just be old-skool biased.

War Walkers are far more survivable, in cover, than they ever were in any other edition of the game thus far. Don't forget, even the penetrating hit chart lost a dice result that ended in "destroyed." They are statistically tougher now.
EMLs make them dead-expensive, and are a better option if you're looking for purely annoying fire support to sit at your table edge from turn 1. Their Scout ability opens up interesting (very interesting) possibilities when entering from the table side from reserves, especially with the new FAQ to Autarchs.

Falcons are less viable, IMO. While they got statistically tougher (search around and you'll find someone recently crunched the numbers, but I couldn't tell you where exactly) they make much poorer gunboats now. There are better ways to use your non-scoring heavy slots now. (the changes to assault pretty much took the biggest nerf bat ever to the harlequin-invulnerable-transport-assasult-rush...and GOOD RIDDANCE)

Fire Prisms will make extraordinarily effective gunboats, and I expect to see more of them. With their better BS4 upgraded from the previous codex's BS3, they scatter no more than a SM vindicator tank (2d6-4) which means you'll generally vaporize a portion of your target. I've heard Tau commanders super excited about their hammerheads under 5th, and I think that Eldar players should be equally so about their FPrisms. Against the larger tanks (read: Land Raiders), the S10 small blast combo will still be deadly effective.

Thusly I conclude my thoughts.

Admiral Falyn wrote:
Dark reapers- The reaper launchers are good against MEQs, but their exarch really shines with the tempest launcher and crack shot. With all the cover, two AP 3 blast templates ignoring cover and scattering 2d6-5 is not horrible. The EML adds anti tank, but holds back the rest of the squad.

All very true. Avoid giving the exarch a missile launcher at all costs. It just tempts you to waste the squad shooting at things that they mostly can’t hurt. The tempest launcher and crack shot is extremely good. As a side note, avoid fast shot. It can’t be used with crack shot and crack shot gives a 50% boost in kills (due to re-rolling wounds) and ignores cover where as fast shot only gives a 50% boost in killing power (in theory) due to going from 2 shots to 3.

Fire Prisms- Unless taken in mass, not worth it. The large blast is good against horde, but with new template rules for vehicles, its anti tank capabilities are shot.

There isn’t anything wrong with single prisms. Sure they can’t do the voltron shot but that hardly makes them not worth taking. Their anti tank power is somewhat limited though due to scattering 2/3 of the time.

Falcon- the falcon acts IMHO as a heavily equipped transport. It lost some survivability since 4th ed, but its killing power is still prevalent. It can be equipped anti tank or anti infantry, and is extremely versatile. If played well, it can be devastating.

The falcon actually hasn’t lost any survivability in 5th. If anything, it got more survivable, just less mobile. Without spewing all the math down here, it takes a little more than twice as many shots to kill a falcon in cover in 5th than it did to kill one moving fast in 4th. This is due to 4+ cover, being unable to be killed on glancing hits, and only blowing up on a 5 or 6 on penetrating hits. What did get nerfed was its ability to be a mobile tank. Now if you want to zoom around and be an effective transport, you more or less have to give up shooting (or at least be configured in a way to make it work out). So while the falcon can do it all, it just can’t do it all at once anymore.

War Walkers- these are great versatile vehicles. Equipped correctly, and deployed behind cover, the can spend the entire game in cover blasting away at the enemy. The EML is a very good weapon for its versatility and anti infantry as well as anti tank. The scatter laser is also a very capable weapon.

War walkers are a great unit (at least in my often contested opinion). In 5th they begin to benefit from cover saves, which should help them out quite a bit. On the down side though, they get destroyed by immobilized results and can’t stay out of sight by being behind area terrain anymore. So it will be a bit of a mixed bag in 5th. One thing that is for sure, no other unit in the game puts out as much long range fire power as war walkers. As far as weapons go, scatter lasers and missile launchers (all of one or the other) are the way to go with these guys. Other weapons or mixing weapons just doesn’t work out well in the new rules.

Support Squad- the D-cannon is a good multi-propose unit that is unaffected by the vehicle template rules. It is also an MEQ killer, and can take out terminators with ease. They lack the survivability of other units, but the need not see their target, so they can be put out of LOS. The vibro cannon holds little over the D-cannon IMHO.

The problem with support batteries is that they are going to (most likely) be harder to hide in 5th than they were in 4th since you can shoot through area terrain now. I think vibro cannons will end up being the more useful of the two weapons simply due to the fact that that they have more range and never miss (scatter).

You also fail to mention dreadnaughts. These guys will probably see a resurgence in 5th I think. Long range anti tank power is something the eldar are starting to really lack (at least on tough units) and these guys are a good source of it. That combined with their ability to take 2 flamers (something that’s kind of rare in the eldar army list) means that all those new fangled cover saves will go to waste.

I apologize for failing to mention the Wraithlord. It is a tough unit that can be decked out to fit many roles. The BL and EML offer long range support and the wraithlord can still hold its own in CC. It compliments long range fire power, like the reapers and support squads, by adding more firepower and still being a threat enough to hold of assaults.

... i've always liked fast shot & a missile launcher if you have a farsee cast doom on the target unit this make this a nasty tactic ...
falcon is still a good gun boat but better used to mop up survivers from other attacks (again missile launcher is a weapon i pick for it) though fun fact you can now tank charge 12" and still fire your main and deffencive weapons ... this make for drive bys unit pass it moral test the tanks still able to shoot them up

also eldar use fast skimmers, we can still travel 24" + 12" for star engins, horray we can do a 36" ramming manoeuvre (strenth +1 for every 3" moved = max strenth 12 + 3 for tank and armour) first turn you lose your prisms cannon ... well you know what you must do DIEEE!! ... and if you survive you can spend the rest of the game tank changing around the map ... though i'm sure a cap of strenth 10 will be set soon

You only count the movement done in the movement phase so 24" would be your max.

Ok thanks for Kallbrand and Danny clearing that up but that still leaves the question can uses the star engins to do a runner and or point the weak back sided away from the enemy? (as a tank charge or ram you can only go straight)

The Eldar FAQ specifically says that Star Engines can be used whenever the vehicle is able to move, regardless of whether or not it can shoot (and despite the wording of the rules that say Star Engines are used "in lieu" of shooting).

You only count the movement done in the movement phase so 24" would be your max.

The rules as written do not support this inference. The Ramming rules specifically say you count the movement made that turn, not phase ("Each full 3" moved that turn by the rammer before impact").

Danny Internets wrote:The rules as written do not support this inference. The Ramming rules specifically say you count the movement made that turn, not phase ("Each full 3" moved that turn by the rammer before impact").

While that is true, ramming happens in the movement phase and the star engines go off in the shooting phase. Therefore, you can't have moved more than 24 that turn by the time you ram something. Although after you finish your ram, you can move another 12 with the star engines, but by then ramming is over. And since ramming and tank shock only happen in the movement phase, you can't ram something eles (or tank shock) durring the extra 12" movement in the shooting phase.

I think that the D-Cannons could be a useful addition depending on our force org.

Since the StarCannon is only 2 shots now, you won't see them as much.

That doesn't leave a lot of long range/Low AP weapons

I like to run a squad of 3 to go after targets with a Good Armor Save (termies or vehicles) the 24" range isn't BAD, and with 3 of them you're bound to hit something.

They tend to fill the LOW AP role in my force org. So take a look at your force and how you want to play it.

If you're going with a shooty force, then i'd suggest some of these

The problem with Dcannons and weavers is that they use the small template, which given the poor BS of the guardians means that they won't hit much against anything smaller then 20 strong units of orks or nids.

With the lack of area terrain, D cannons are harder to hide, so your 150 pts of t3 5+ models will die too quickly to make a big dent.

In the handful of 5e games I've played so far the War Walkers and Wraithlords seem to be more flexible choices. While they can be targeted more often, they are getting some cover saves now, which helps. Except against that exorcist in that last game I played. Ouch.

What I'm thinking is going to be more fun are outflanking warwalkers. Come in 12' from the side, unload lots of dakka into some unit that thought it was screened, and generally monkeywrench your enemies plans.

Everyone covered the high points.

I liked my Falcons as gunboats, and the lost some of that move and shoot ability. I guess I can arm them with EML and shoot plasma as a defensive weapon and still move.

Dark Reapers were my favorite HS choice in 4th edition because they killed MEQs and everything else without a 2+ save. Now with all of the 4+ cover everywhere they lost a lot of their bite.

I do like War Walkers now. Since they have scout, you can give them Shuriken Cannons and keep them dirt cheap and come on from the side to blast things. With the 4+ Cover save it makes them more durable.

Fire Prisms are good because Eldar struggle for anti-tank, and I feel as though we will see a lot more AV14 in our future, and the Fire Prisms are the best at killing it (Especially Monoliths and BT Land Raiders).

I am sticking with my Wraithlords.

Darrian

Also, I fear that dark reapers will be the prime target of flankmarching enemies. They are mostly well hidden in terrain (fortuned or not) and outrange most enemies, but you have to be careful now not to get in hth with them.

The tempest launcher and/or the crack shot ability looks a lot better now, though.

Greets
Schepp himself

I played a couple of small 40k battles this weekend. i switched up my list a couple of times, and found that Dark Reapers die a lot to bolter fire. with so many saves, their launchers are less than effective, although the tempest launcher was very succsesfull. the reapers were devestated by the speed all armies now have. in all the games they played in, tacticaly the paid for their points, but did not actualy pay for their points. wraithlords cant fall to bolter fire, can run, are awsome in close combat, can take out tanks and draws as much firepower as reapers, but can survive it. it is an all around fighter. i will be switching out my reapers for some wraithlords.

Amen

Dark Reapers will frustrate you if their targets get a 4+ cover save all over the place.
Warwalkers are still too vulnerable, even bolters kill them (immobilized in a squadron means destroyed).
Falcons are less useful. Use them to deliver their cargo behind enemy lines with star engines and then go ramming.
Wraithlords will be seen more often due to the run rule.

wuestenfux wrote:Dark Reapers will frustrate you if their targets get a 4+ cover save all over the place.
Warwalkers are still too vulnerable, even bolters kill them (immobilized in a squadron means destroyed).
Falcons are less useful. Use them to deliver their cargo behind enemy lines with star engines and then go ramming.
Wraithlords will be seen more often due to the run rule.

I finally got to play some 5th games this weekend. My first impression is that cover is not really any more of an issue in 5th than it was in 4th…at least for infantry. Anything that gave cover in 4th still gives cover in 5th. The only differences are that area terrain no longer blocks line of sight (so you can shoot more things in 5th than you could in 4th) and that if you shoot infantry that are behind other infantry (or on the other side of your own infantry) then they get cover saves. In either case, it’s not very difficult to shoot at things that don’t get cover saves. Just make sure your own troops are not between you and your target and then shoot whatever is in front. Problem solved. I was playing with my dark reapers this weekend and they did just as well as they always do. They ravaged anything that stuck its head out from behind cover and they also did a fair job of killing off 3+ save guys in cover too. The real gem for the reapers though was the exarch. With the tempest launcher no longer getting partials, this guy has become one of the craziest killing machines I’ve seen. In one particular MVP moment, my exarch took out a 9 man raptor squad (that wasn’t all bunched up) in one round of shooting by himself. Yay crack shot.

As for the war walkers, I still find them to be an extremely good unit. At 180 points for 3 with scatter lasers, they are a bargain. The volume of fire they put out at 36” is unmatched by any other unit in the game. In the games I played, I didn’t make any use of their outflanking though since it seems like the worst idea ever to get your war walkers closer to the enemy than they have to be (ever). I just deployed them with the rest of my army and let them rip into the enemy at long range. And while bolters may be able to hurt them, if the enemy got that close to them, then you did something wrong (or the enemy made good use of deep strike).

I gave my falcon a missile launcher for the games I played, although I don’t think I ever used the plasma missile (the opportunity just never really came up). I either was zooming around for one reason or another, like contesting objectives at the end of the game (or tank shocking troops off objectives) or I was shooting at other vehicles (and thus using krak missiles). My impression is that while the falcon still does everything (it’s a main battle tank, transport, super fast, and uber tough unit) it just can’t do them all at once anymore. If I wanted to use it as a transport, I have to give up some fire power. If I want it to be a main battle tank (and fire all the weapons) it loses some speed. Its still good, just not as good as it was before. I think I may try giving it a bright lance in the future and just use it as a tank killing pill box.