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id like to open up a discussion on guardian jetbikes. Since 5th edition Ive taken two 3man jetbike squads w/ 1 shuriken cannon each. Ive done this to have 2 fast moving scoring units. but im at a complete loss as to how to effectively use them. im debating dropping them, but i wanted to hear some comments.

(1) they draw fire if theyre in range...theyre an easily destroyed scoring unit. (2) if a single unit is destroyed they need to roll to fall back (3) theyre not really an effective shooting or CC unit (4) they cant turboboost over terrain, and my 5th edition table is much more terrain ridden, which has caused a headache a few times

the only effective role ive really found is finishing off 1-3 man troop units that are lingering late game, but this is limited. im wondering if theyd be more effective as one single unit or should i remove them...im debating replacing them with a 6 man pathfinder unit.

thoughts?

Whats wrong with jetbikes? They move fast and can get into cover with the assult move, they can swoop in and claim objectives and they arent very expensive. If you run prisms/falcons you can always hide behind them. Small units are always vulnerable to moral but they arent that expensive tbh, so it whouldnt break you if they fail from time to time.

The only reason not to run them at all is if your table is to ridden with terrain, but then thats probably wrong and not the jetbikes.

The only benifit you will see from consolidating them into one large unit is that they will take break tests less often. The down side is that they become more difficult to hide/give cover when you need to. On the down side, you go from having two scoring units down to one. It just doesn't seem like a worth while trade off to me.

All in all though, jetbikes are not the be all end all by any means. They are fast and fairly resilant (by eldar standards) but they don't do much in either shooting or assault. They really shine at the eldar specialty though, claming objectives right at the end of the game from half the board away.

Their move, shoot, move ability will help you out a little bit since you can jump around cover and then move back but if you are doing that, you are dangerously close to assault range.

All in all, I would have the jetbikes hang back in the beginning of the game (or move around my back field to get into position for later manuivers). Durring this time you could turbo boos them around and position them between the enemy and some of your back field units that may not have cover. That way they give your other units a 4+ cover save and they themselves get a 3+ cover save if the enemy wants to shoot at them instead. Regardless, you can then use the squad as a mop up unit to clean up any enemy units that get into your lines. Finaly, towards the end of the game, you can zip them over to take objectives. By that time they should have sustained few if any casulaties (they are unlikely to be a high priority target) so they should be able to withstand a round of enemy attention if necessary.

I would consolidate them if you had a Farseer on bike to lead them...

I haven't really though about the farseer on bike as it applies to 5th edition rules, except to say that he should be attached to a squad of bikes instead of on his own.

I would suggest going to even numbered model counts in your units though (so you could lose 2 and still rally)

It's a mistake not to put a warlock with destructor and singing spear into the squad. It makes it a much more threatening unit to a wide range of foes.

I agree with biztheclown. I run my jetbike unit in exactly that way: three guardians, one with shuriken cannon, and one warlock with spear and destructor. Against a vehicle-heavy list, the singing spear is pretty useful and worth its 3-pt cost. The unit really shines when facing infantry with a 4+ save or worse, as the heavy flamer decimates them. The value of this attack will only increase in 5ed, as bypassing cover saves will be of importance.

I actually have moved toward considerably larger squads in 5th ed. You simply can't have 3 man squads or you will get massacred in a KP mission.

Instead I've been using them as fire saturation troops. 9 jetbikes w/ 3 shuriken cannons, and a warlock with embolden. I find I generally lose my jetbikes because of their lousy leadership. Plus if you toss a farseer in their they get to re roll their pyschic powers becasue of embolden.

The squad is better than most people expect. With doom they kill 4 marines a turn even if they are in hard cover and a slew of something like orks. Also, they cause a ton of wounds which results in a lot of sgt. and hvy weapon guys being lost.

In 4th I liked destructor squads, but the standard 5 guys and warlock with destructor is basically a suicide unit and you really need to keep your jetbieks out of combat in 5th.

Pete

Even a discount warlock with embolden (and witchblade) can both (1) help the unit keep from breaking and (2) make them able to effectively assault those pillbox vehicles hiding in corner terrain across the board or bail out a unit tied up in HtH with a walker.

I find the Warlocks are worth the price only in units of 6 or more, UNLESS you are low on anti-tank in your list (making the spear shots really helpful).

This is separate from the issue of whether 3-bike units are useful in 5ed. Regarding that matter, your mileage may vary. A single 3-bike unit with cannon for 76 points has a greater value as an objective-grabber than it is a liability for that single KP. More than one becomes more of a liability, but protecting and using one bjective-grabber for those points is really worth it. As a bonus, that S6 cannon can really help with stopping numerous AV10 transports, like Raiders or trukks.

I had the same problems with my 3 bike squad, warlock and cannon included: They often ran/flew of the board without accomplishing much. But I used them wrong, I guess. You have to be very careful with them, not blindly fly them out in the first turns, better hide another turn if you are not sure. With the spear or even only with the witchblade you will make a mess out of vehicles in 5th edition. Almost any tank sitting in cover will think twice about hanging out in there if these guys are nearby. And the shuriken cannon helps against rhinos and the likes, too (they will be getting cheaper and thus more fielded in the future).

I haven't used the destructor to great effect, but I played only against meqs, so that doesn't count.

Greets
Schepp himself

Are you not leaving 3 man squads in reserve? Their only purpose is to claim objectives, or not die if playing a KP mission. The longer they are off the table, the better.

torgoch wrote:Are you not leaving 3 man squads in reserve? Their only purpose is to claim objectives, or not die if playing a KP mission. The longer they are off the table, the better.

Well, that wasn't true when they could hide behind terrain effectively. Nowadays, it depends upon whether the table looks like they can hide. If so, bring them on early and use their shuricannon to snipe transports, etc. And if you're really worried about anti-vehicle power, get that spear-wielding warlock out there fast.

But in KP missions with little hiding space, they are indeed better off in reserves.

You really ought not to be playing 40K with little terrain. terrain is supposed to be an important part of the game.

Without it much of the strategic options are pointless and the game boils down to a mathematical exercise in list development and dice rolling.

You should check last numbers WD with suggested tables with terrain and see how much they recommend you play with. Its not CoD all the time you know.

The problem with terrain in 5th is not that there is not enough/too much ot it. It is that very little of it actually completely blocks LOS. I am having trouble with my jetbikes hiding now. Yes they can JSJ but the cover they hide behind can now be shot through. I am very curious to see how Tau crisis suits will adapt to this.

True, they can be shot at- but that's where the decent save/toughness come in. I like using bikes as fire magnets for, say, bolter fire. I'd much rather those bolters go after the bikes than the infantry that are more likely to be effective against bolter-bearing enemy troops.

You do understand that 2/3 of the missions in 5th are objectives based, right? Jetbikes are troops and, as such, can control objectives. Thus their survival is essential to winning many of your games in 5th. This is why the lack of terrain to hide behind hurts. I DO NOT want my bikes shot at during the early-mid game. No scoring units= no win!

I do understand this. I also understand that effective bait (including fire-magnets) should be worth something, ie a scoring unit. As I said, I would rather have those bolters etc. going after the bikes than, say, the Guardian squads advancing on the objectives OR the (non-scoring but highly lethal) Banshees moving in to kill the enemy objective-holders. If you already have 4+ troops units (which I have fielded in my recent lists), sacrificing 1 to protect the others is not such a bad thing.

I also understand that the 3-elf squads are a liability in the KP scenarios. Since hiding is less effective now, I'm wondering whether y'all are right and I should drop the second unit of bikes that I usually run, sticking to a single 3-elf unit for annoyance/distraction value.

The best way to use them is in squads of 3 or 6, and have 2 or 3 such units. 12-15 Jetbikes is ideal. Then you get a farseer on a jetbike with Doom (and doom only, unless you have spare points). This flanking force moves around the table, and so long as the farseer is alive, you can point at something within 12" of your jetbikes, decide if you want it to live or not, and then make good on your whim.

Adding warlocks with singing spears adds some anti-tank power, and if you give them conceal then you don't have to worry about plasmas as much. As for Destructor, a heavy flamer is always nice, but not always needed. Switch between Conceal and Destructor with discretion.

Why would you give them "conceal"? They have a 3+ armor save and will usually be behind some cover if you use your JSJ ability. Embolden is the ability that your L:8 guys really bebfit from. Unless you like the idea of your pricey guys running off the table at great speed.

Agreed. I find embolden a requirement. I tried conceal and it worked great with fortune for awhile but eventually you get to the point where you have to make a check and then you are pretty much fleeing 50% of the time with an expensive unit...

As for keeping them alive, you can always fortune and turbo boos them...

I played and ork army the other day. We had 5 loot counters and I had 5 units left, while he had 3 pretty big one. So I just started turbo boosting and staying alive. On the last turn I flew at the objectives and took the game.

He trounced me from a kill perspective but that's not what counts anymore, and that's why jetbikes are good.

Also why would someone say they are not good at shooting? They are spectacular at shooting, they are just not great at killing things like termies.

Pete

Since you like to keep your farseer in that squad of bikes, he will also benefit from embolden. He will be able to reroll his psyker test, now. So good!

Yup, good call. I've actually been running a list with Eldrad in a waveserpent with 10 Dire avengers, and Farseer on a jetbike with doom and fortune. Thus I have 3 fortuned jetbike squads, or I can do things like tons of doom, and for further resilience I can do things like fortune the wavserpent which for all intents and purposes makes the unit invulnerable to shooting while embarked.

The other point of note is that I run a unit of fire dragons in a waveserpent for tank hunting and termi control. This also creates a back up taxi for Eldrad should his transport get dropped from a hth attack (which is usually the only way it dies).

Overall though this list kills infantry so quickly, that if you you can stay out of hth you can pretty much hang with just about any list. Especially with KPs. 9 JBs and Warlock is really hard to get rid of if you are just zipping around with with T4 re rollable 3+ cover saves.

Pete