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This might be the nastiest, and happily also the most cool and thematic list I've ever made... Can you spot flaws in it? How would you beat it?

HQ

Iyanna Ariennal (Counts as Eldrad Ulthran) 210

Avatar 155

ELITES

*5 Fire Dragons, Waveserpent, twin cannons, spirit stones 190

*5 Fire Dragons, Waveserpent, twin cannons, spirit stones 190

TROOPS

*10 Wraithguard, *1 Spiritseer, conceal

*9 Dire Avengers, *1 Exarch, bladestorm, Waveserpent, twin cannons, spirit stones 257

*8 Dire Avengers, *1 Exarch, dual cats, bladestorm, Waveserpent, twin cannons, spirit stones 250

HEAVY SUPPORT

*1 Wraithlord, wraithsword

*1 Wraithlord, wraithsword

The WG, WLs, and Avatar run forward to close the gap. Iyanna joins the WG and fortunes them and the Avatar. The Serpents fly around and support this hard core of the army.

Looks like a real fun list to play.

Not real sure how I would go about beating it, but those fire dragons and DAs would be last on my to-do list, for sure. The 5 targets coming at me hopefully would bend to some shooting enough to let an assault cause some bleeding.

Again, looks fun to play with and play against. I like.

I don't like this list in that it's not focused enough.

Wraithguard and wraithlords are certainly not dedicated assault units, and any real counter assault is going to give you issues once you hit the enemy line. You should really only have one turn of shooting before you get assaulted.

If I was playing against this list, I would simply ignore your walking elements, and focus on taking out your support (waveserpents/cargo). Once you get close, massed fire gets put on the avatar (your only real assault threat), and I'd let my counter assault tear into you.

I'm not really sold on the 10 Wraithguard unit. It's about 400 points and isn't going to be doing much for a majority of the game. Sure it's definitely hard to kill, but it doesn't have a large threat radius.

Have you ever tried using massed firepower on a fortuned avatar? It's not very effective, I know from experience, being on the wrong end of it. I surrounded him with most of my army, rapid fired, and nothing happened.

Thanks for the feedback guys

Ixe wrote:Have you ever tried using massed firepower on a fortuned avatar? It's not very effective, I know from experience, being on the wrong end of it. I surrounded him with most of my army, rapid fired, and nothing happened.

Thanks for the feedback guys

I've played probably 15+ games w/ fortuned avatar in 4th ed. If your opponent really wants to kill him, he will kill him, regardless.

True enough... Maybe this list needs scorpions. I would use Harlies, but they're too much a glass cannon. Scorps can get in and stay in without dieing to GEqs, unlike Harlies. Any return stone-throws kill Harlies dead.

yeah if people wanna kill my avatar fortuned or not hes schmoked like a wet turd.

Might as well use the last heavy slot for a falcon to transport one fire dragon unit in.

The army I usually play is similiar but I run tri WL with BL+ ML instead and I run at least one squad of harlies for count-assault on the units that can actually hurt the 3 WL's that are in the middle of the battle with the Avatar. No one shoots the harlies that are hanging back behind the wall of monstrous creatures. I also use no WS's for the DA's I use those points for guardian jetbikes.

Darrian

I'd probably use cheap lesser daemons to hold up the avatar while I shoot the wave serpents and the avengers down, then handle the wraithguard in hth when I'm good and ready.

Then again I've got doomsirens, which while needing a 5+ to wound will really do a number on those wraithguard when it ignores all their saves

yeah but the wraithlords will demolish your noisemarines unless you have a powerfist in the squad, and you probably don't.

You will probably lose a squad of 10 lesser demons in 3 combat phases to a lone avatar. If your squad is doomed, 2 phases. Losing in hth while being fearless is brutal on those lesser demons in 5th.

Ixe hi again, as you know i think you are missing at least one HtH unit, not much, i like the list, and as you know is pretty similar to mine.

I still havents tried it because im still on a championship with 4th edition rules and there are still 3 rounds to finish, but the next one ill try it

@Kaintxu, "A championship"? Can you explain?

a tournament, it started with 30 people you have to play a battle every 2 weeks when you loose 3 battles you are discualified.

now we only remain 8 people, and its final quarters, 4 will win and pass to semi finals and final. 200€ for winner 100€ for second.

i like the one i have posted, but i dont know if it will work :S

It could work nice, just fill out the last hwy slot. Either another WL or a falcon as transport for one of your smaller squads. That way you can get a little more firepower for the same points or be a little bit better in HtH.

If the MCs keep(even with "only" 3 but even better with 4) within 12 of each other I dont think there is too much that can move them.

eh, without rerolls to hit [which you could arrange, sure] the Avatar is about as good as a greater daemon when it comes to killing weak infantry, so with invulnerable saves it shouldn't be all that terrible.

And hopefully I can bring enough anti-tank firepower to handle a few wraithlords.

I'm not saying "har har your list sucks" it's entirely possible I could end up trounced by it. I'm just also saying a fairly balanced list could also handle it if played well.

You are despwerately short of some firepower, I would take the option to add a gun to the Wraithlords. ith so little firepower you will need quality here, either starcannon or bright lances.

Stuff the pricetag, in this list you cannot afford not to have them.

Wraithlord with BL,ML and 2 flamers for 155 each. That is a steal.

I think you a steadfastly lacking in Anti-tank. Your Fire Dragons can get the job done alright, but they need to get there first. Even if they do, it may not be until the second turn or so. Your Wraithlords should be toting some firepower, even if it means just a Shuriken Cannon. That gives them something to do in the 2-3 turns they'll take to get to grips with the enemy.

Me? I run a 3 LR Grey Knight List, and your Wave Serpents wouldn't see the light of day for more then 2 turns, especially with the new PotMS rules released in the DH FAQ. You also better hope you get a chance to shoot your Wraithcannons at me before I charge out of my Transport.

All in all, I think you could use a Bright Lance or two. Having them on the Wraithlords couldn't hurt, and neither could fitting a nice CC squad in there, like Scorpions or Banshees (I prefer Scorpions, as they are a bit hardier).

Have you considered replacing the Avatar with Pirate Prince Yriel? Unlike the Avatar, he can hide in the Wraithguard unit and is no slouch in the CC department. 5 2+ wounding PW attacks is close to the Avatar, and the only trade off is the T3.

I don't know. The avatar is far better in h2h and much harder to kill. Yriels best ability is useful only when he charges into combat alone