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I havent seen a thread on this so I thought I might as well chime in here.

I looked at the 5th edition hardback of and on over the last fortnight, and apoc reloaded, though I ony had a brief look at that.

I wont post rules rumours as most of those have been posted already, and I only had a short look.

The background artwork.

There is new artwork mixed in with the old, with different styles for different races. Each 'race' gets a two page spread in addition to the text. The ork artwork is an arrow flowchart cartoon showing the stages of an ork waargh in progression. Compelte with explodings ships etc.
The tyranid spread is a dry as toast flowchart of the progression of the absorbtion of a world. there is a two page spread showing the viewe from a tower in craftworld Lugganath. compared to their power craftworlds are not that big, though for that matter so are marine chapters.

Thetre is nice character artork throughout. With a double page of a tricked out =I= lord and retinue, while heavily blinged the figures look reall ballsy, a bit like miniature titans. There is a definate 'dont mess with us feel' that sets the scene.

The background text.

I didnt read a lot but from what I saw there is a sea change in the general background. There is a long history of humanity complete with timecharts. The time line takes us to 41K which is where 5th edition starts, The basic premise is that the Imperium is officially recognised, albeit quietly, as falling and the Time of Ending have begun. 41K is not a battle to save the Imperium, but to delay its end. Other races smell blood in the water, in particular the Necrons and tyranids who appear to be updating their own invasion schedules.

While this was obvious when you look at the scale of the tyranid and Necron threat, before it was just GW studio playing fast and lose with background scale and the imperium was still on top. However in canon this has now changed, the Imperium is still the single most mighty faction, but has lost its supremacy. The idea that the Imperium can fight as many wars as its likes anywhere is failing, and the High Lords of Terra appear to realise they can no longer just go anywhere.

Harsh realities.

The wasteful approach to resources in the Imperium has not been rectified but has now been explained, at lerast to the satisfaction of itself. The Inquisitions readiness to use Exterminatus and other exteme measures, once a glib part of the baxckground now makes sense. The imperium reaslises it can no longer afford to lose planets this way, change in itself, but also beleives it sometimes has little choice, either strategically or doctrinally.

In all it presents no change in the background to the Imperium, or in its methods, however it does represent a change of GW's handling of the scale of the game universe and grasp of where the power balance truly lies when the fluff is added together. Essentially they realised what the way the universe is written up the Imperium cannot survive, and have progressed the plot accordingly.

Apocalypse reloaded.

I only got a brief peek.

Its mostly new formations and a few new strategies. there are not many new units. IIRC only three.

1. The Stormlord is a Baneblade mod with twin linked Vulcan megabolter as its primary weapon. The tank was shown as a side drawing as per codexes, rather than any 3d artwork so I dont know if the main weapon is front firing or turreted, however it looks to me to be a front mount. The tank is otherwise mostl

2. There is a new double height version of a Monolith. I did not get to see what it does and dont remember its name. The Monolith upgrade is a plasticard conversion, not a forgeworld model I wasnt impressed really. Though Necrons are top of the list for needing new vehicles, their selection is too limited (albeit mighty) actually they need something below Monolith power.

3. A Goff Stompa. geared out for close combat.

There are two variants of something akin to the Court of the Young King, one with just exarchs, one a whole battleforce with aspects too.

The 'Green Tide' of one ork warboss and 100 orks.

The Reaver Titan was not in the book.

Orlanth wrote:
In all it presents no change in the background to the Imperium, or in its methods, however it does represent a change of GW's handling of the scale of the game universe and grasp of where the power balance truly lies when the fluff is added together. Essentially they realised what the way the universe is written up the Imperium cannot survive, and have progressed the plot accordingly.

So, basically, everything is how it was, just worded a bit differently?

I didn't expect anything else, really, but I was hoping.

"The Imperium is Doomed" has been in just about every Xenos Codex to date, so, having it in the 5th Edition Rulebook too is no great shakes.

Still, maybe by 6th we'll have real change, the Primarchs (Loyalist!) returned, and the Emperor reborn!

Yeah...

On the True and Great Evil could ever bring about such change...

...The Threat of...

...Hasbro!

thanks for the info on the new background.

No hints of new armies and factions huh?

Reload is available to check out at the stores?

Did anyone see the Imperial Shield Infantry Company rules?

So summer-long campaigns have no effect on the timeline, but a reworded sentance or two can change everything?

Well, they don't need to pee on me and tell me it's raining, the timeline is just going to get strung out like the last 4 years with a whole lot of nothing going on. I'll have to go over it again, but it read like the same load of tripe we've had for a decade now.

Luckily for me, I just like to collect, paint and play. The fluff is nice, but I ain't going to loose sleep over it. It's getting kinda boring. Let's see some world-shakin' going on Luker!

Le Grognard wrote:So summer-long campaigns have no effect on the timeline, but a reworded sentance or two can change everything?

Well, they don't need to pee on me and tell me it's raining, the timeline is just going to get strung out like the last 4 years with a whole lot of nothing going on. I'll have to go over it again, but it read like the same load of tripe we've had for a decade now.

Luckily for me, I just like to collect, paint and play. The fluff is nice, but I ain't going to loose sleep over it. It's getting kinda boring. Let's see some world-shakin' going on Luker!

Yes, let's!

Please!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:thanks for the info on the new background.

No hints of new armies and factions huh?

Yes some races were mentioned by name, but only as a list in a sentence. GW has a habit of doing just that, in their eyes it sets a thread they can tug on later. No indication of active new races or armies though. In fact little new at all in this way.

Scottywan82 wrote:Reload is available to check out at the stores?

Only where the staff were distracted or easy going. They were not supposed to preview it to us.

Alpharius wrote:

So, basically, everything is how it was, just worded a bit differently?

I didn't expect anything else, really, but I was hoping.

"The Imperium is Doomed" has been in just about every Xenos Codex to date, so, having it in the 5th Edition Rulebook too is no great shakes.

Now quite. before The 'Imperium is Doomed' was just a soundbyte added to campaigns. The old World was equally doomed facing their last big chaos baddy. that is just more GW hype. No this time they have actually stopped and thought, way too late, that if the events were as the background described the Imperium must be crumbling, and quickly. Now they have grasped that they are running with it. Battles are now about delaying the fall, not preserving the Imperium, small change in the wording, big change in the outlook.

Orlanth wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

So, basically, everything is how it was, just worded a bit differently?

I didn't expect anything else, really, but I was hoping.

"The Imperium is Doomed" has been in just about every Xenos Codex to date, so, having it in the 5th Edition Rulebook too is no great shakes.

Now quite. byfore The Imperiu is Doomed was just acsoundbyte added to campaigns. The old World was equally doomed facing their last big chaos baddy. that is jusdt more GW hype. No this time they have actually stopped and thought, way too late, that if the events were as the background described the imperium must be crumbling, and quickly. Now they have grasped that they are running with it. Battles are now about delaying the fall, not preserving the Imperium, small change in the wording, big change in the outlook.

And little change in reality.

I appreciate your synopsis though. It is a subtle change, but GW doesn't do "subtle" well.

The end result: Everything old is new again?

I think a lot of people want to see genuine movement forward with the timeline, and it could be done, and done well.

But it looks like we'll have to wait for 6th to see any.

What was it the Oracle said? "This has happened before, and will happen again."

Recycling your papers and cans is good for the environment; but recycling your fluff? Not so good.

Pooh... So no word from anyone else on what the infantry company does?

C'mon guys, really. The fluff has to be open ended. Why? So you can use it to make missions/campaigns, what have you. You want something to happen in "your" version of the 40K galaxy? You can! Just do it! That's why its open ended.

If they answered all the outstanding fluff questions it would be a shame. This is even stranger than the idea that only "official" GW rules rulings matter. Be creative!

"Ten thousand years ago the Emperor lived and breathed as a mortal man, but his physical life has long since ended, crushed out of him by Horus, the Great Enemy, in the final battle for Earth. Today, as for the last ten thousand years, the Emperor lives only by the force of his supreme will. His broken and decayed body is preserved by the stasis fields and psi-fusion reactors of the Golden Throne. His great mind endures inside a rotted carcass, kept alive by the mysteries of ancient technology. His immense psychic powers envelop and protect Mankind across the entire galaxy. His consciousness wanders through Warp space, keeping closed the doors between this world and the next.

If the Emperor fails then the Daemons of Chaos will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind and the stuff of Warp space will submerge the galaxy. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."

Pow! Most stupid fan theories are shot down in one fell swoop.

How so?

By that little "Pow!" at the end, I think.

No one knows what will happen if the Emperor is able to cast off the anchor of the Golden Throne...

This is from the 5th edition book.

Alpharius is right, its by the 'Pow' at the end. GW have thought through some of their background, but are still just handwaving at the rest.

Nothing in logic tells me that the darek powers are being kept out of the universe by the Emperor.

However the passage would accurately reflect what the Imperial Cult believes, or at least what it preaches.

BrookM wrote:
Pow! Most stupid fan theories are shot down in one fell swoop.

The stupidity is firmly grasped by GW Studio, as always.

i thought it was cool that the timeline had a snippet about the golden thrown havin' a malfunction, and startin' to fail...

the two page adrian smith picture of the inquisitor and retinue was worth the price of admission...amazin' piece..

cheers
jah

Actually, those are the four main players of the Imperium: Space Marines, Inquisition, Adeptus Mechanicus and the Imperial Guard. I still feel Adrian can't do faces right

The marine looks like a dwarf for 40k (are ultramarines squats?).

Someone forgot to lend A.S a model of coteaz and a marine to compare proportions.

I liked that event in M32... The Beheading. That might make an interesting Apocolypse mission.

ZF-