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HQ 205
-- Daemon Prince with Mark of Tzeentch and Wings
-- Warptime and Wind of Chaos

Troop 274 points
-- Aspiring Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos
-- Thousand Sons x8

Troop 274 points
-- Aspiring Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos
-- Thousand Sons x8

Troop 275 points
-- Chaos Champion with Power Fist
-- Chaos Space Marine with Icon of Tzeentch
-- Chaos Space Marine with Flamer x2
-- Chaos Space Marine with Bolter and Pistol plus CCW x6
-- Chaos Rhino Transport

Troop 275 points
-- Chaos Champion with Power Fist
-- Chaos Space Marine with Icon of Tzeentch
-- Chaos Space Marine with Flamer x2
-- Chaos Space Marine with Bolter and Pistol plus CCW x6
-- Chaos Rhino Transport

Heavy 150 points
-- Obliterators x2

Heavy 150 points
-- Obliterators x2

Heavy 145 points
-- Chaos Vindicator with Daemonic Possession

EDIT: revised list based on a few suggestions and tweaks

Looks pretty good.
However, I'd take a DP instead of a Lord as the latter can be instantly killed.

this list needs work.

first of all your lord should be a demon prince. they have better stats, kill more stuff in combat and have psychic powers. a DP with MoT, wings and bolt of change costs 175pts and is far better than a lord, who will get shot by a lascannon and die. for an extra 5 points you could change BoC to wind of chaos to kill stuff in cover, which is very important in 5th.

gift of chaos is a crap power. you can only use it at the beginning of your turn, so if your within 2 inches of your enemy the likely hood is that your in combat and being cut to pieces, which is a bad thing. for 5 points less you could have Bolt of change to give you some extra tank killing ablity. its a much better power, plus it also one shots lone MEQ commanders on bikes . you save 10 points there

for 286 points your CSM in rhinos can become 1Ksons in rhinos

1KSons 286 pts
7 1KSons + 1 Aspiring Sorcerer
Wind of Chaos
Rhino


this gives you speed and a much better flamer template. you dont loose points overall because you saved some changing gift of chaos to bolt of change.

your obliterators are fine, you dont need icons sa you probably shouldnt be deep striking them anyway (only in Dawn of War games)

Regwon wrote:"...gift of chaos is a crap power. you can only use it at the beginning of your turn, so if your within 2 inches of your enemy the likely hood is that your in combat and being cut to pieces, which is a bad thing. for 5 points less you could have Bolt of change to give you some extra tank killing ablity. its a much better power, plus it also one shots lone MEQ commanders on bikes . you save 10 points there..."

I'll have to disagree about the GoC being a crap power - I have actually found it to be a nice counter assault tool. Thousand Sons don't drop that easily in close combat, as such if an opposing unit launches an assault on their turn then the Aspiring Sorcerer has a chance ( well two actually ) to use Gift of Chaos on icon bearers, monstrous creatures, commanders, etc... that are up to six inches away ( no longer two inches ) at the start of his turn.

Regwon wrote:"...you dont need icons as you probably shouldn't be deep striking ( oblitz ) anyway..."

I've taken the Icons primarily for the Tzeentch theme, granting the 5+ Invulnerable save for the squad. In the event of Deep Striking the Oblitz however, the tactic would be rush the Rhinos forward on first turn and creating a wall for their arrival: the Rhino itself acts as a teleport device if the squad remains inside - thus blocking LOS to the newly arrived unit. I've run similar techniques with the Icons in Rhinos calling upon assault based Terminator squads.

Okay, had the opportunity to review some suggestions here and on other forums. Essentially keeping the same themed list as before but with a few tweaks: Chaos Lord replaced with Daemon Prince --plus-- one of the Oblitz units replaced with a Chaos Vindicator.

Thanks for the comments so far. Things looking better now ?

dont take out oblits for a vindicator. oblits a better. they will kill more of everything and not die as quickly.

1KSons are about as easy to kill as marines in combat, except they are more expensive, so there will be fewer of them. they will be reduced to a couple of guys, if not killed on the first round of combat. at that point you wont be able to use gift of chaos at all. but if you still arent sure, lefts break it down:

Gift of chaos kills an MEQ on a 5+, no save

Bolt of change kills an MEQ on a 2+, inv saves only

Gift of Chaos has a range of 6", so has a practical application in combat only

Bolt of Change has a range of 24", so can be used 2-3 times before combat, where it cant be used

Gift of Chaos cannot harm a tank

Bolt of Change can kill even AV14 tanks

Gift of Chaos creates a spawn (spawn are really awful)

Bolt of change cost 5pts less


in your updated list you have 3 sources of anti-tank (DP, 4 lascannon. the vindicator doesnt count because the likely hood is it will scatter off and do nothing). this isnt enough. adding bolt of change to your sorcerers would not only give you more anti-tank but save you points too.

your CSM squads cost more than your 1Ksons squads and are worse. replace them.

if you deepstrike your oblits you will loose at least one turn of shooting. the only time where deepstriking them would be worth it is in dawn of war missions. if you must do DS them then, then you can give your new 1KSons squads in rhinos personal icons.

CSM bad. Thousand Sons good.

Vindicators ok. Oblits better.

But if I'm firing BoC with the Asp Sorc, then I'm wasting a round of anti-infantry shots with the Inferno Bolters.

this is true, but if there is only a tank to shoot at you can now hurt it. its up to you to pick your targets. if a russ is causing you more trouble than a squad of guard then i suggest shooting the tank.

if there are some assault marines bearing down on you but theres a pred in the distance, shoot the assault marines.

you gain more from having BoC than the synergy you lose. as i said before, synergy is good, but good choices are better.

toxic_wisdom wrote:But if I'm firing BoC with the Asp Sorc, then I'm wasting a round of anti-infantry shots with the Inferno Bolters.

True, and why I don't like BoC on 1000 Son AS. I suggest either doombolt cause it's cheap and matches the squad's weapons, or warptime for some combat prowess. Give the warptiming AS a melta bomb too if you can spare the 5 points and now the rubrics won't necessarily get hopelessly stuck with a dread or something - and remember that warptime lets him reroll the 6+ to hit with the bomb

- Salvage

Regwon wrote:
Bolt of change kills an MEQ on a 2+, inv saves only

It's str 8. It causes instant death. Just pointing out.
It's an ok idea to have vanilla marines for counter-assault, because TSons are horrible in CC.

Boss Salvage, the only reservation I have with you saying that BoC is not good on 1K Sons is that it is difficult for such an army to have a ton of anti-tank. With BoC, it becomes dangerous for vehicles to get close, whereas without it a Dreadnought wouldn't have a second's hesitation in charging a unit of them.

I know that a supporting unit should be drawn up with them, but ideally I believe it is important for every unit to have some small countermeasure in at least one aspect they don't specialize in. Call it inefficient if you like, but I'd want my 1K Sons to have protection against vehicles and a minor deterrent to 2+ save models.

Warptime, however, is definitely nice, and I can Warptime/Meltabomb combos making nice anti-tank backups while having good counterassault. 3 Force Weapon attacks in CC will scare rambo commanders.

CK

BoC over doombolt is inefficient, but it is required because the list posted doesnt have enough anti-tank. if it comes up against a mech army it just wont be able to cope. if he had 6-9 oblits then sure, doombolt is better, but he doesnt, so he needs BoC.

giving a 1Ksons AS warptime and meltabombs means youve already come to the conclusion that they will get stuck in combat, which means youve probably lost the battle already. with BoC you can make sure the dreads dont get anywhere near you, rather than being useless against them up until the last moment, when you become decidedly average. 1KSons tarpir dreads like nothing else so they can just sit there until you can counter charge with your prince.