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So weve been playing with 5th edition rules here in my neck of the woods and have some questions for the general community. hopefully we can get some clarifications/opinions.

1. can your own units block line of sight?? there is an insert about models in the same unit not blocking LOS, but it was pointed out to me that there are no explicit rule that says your own infantry units do not block LOS, therefor they do. are my own units so F***ing stupid that they cant lean to one side or get out of the way when the unit behind them is shooting??

2. are troops that are locked in CC still scoring units?? again doesnt seem that theres any explicit "no" anywhere so i can only assume they are.

3. regarding wound allocation. let us assume i have a unit with 3 models of type A and 1 model of type B and the entire unit is in a situation where it only has possible armor saves. This unit is attacked and suffers 9 wounds, one of which ignores armor saves. must the defender first remove a model due to the armor save ignoring wound, then allocate the rest of the wounds, or may he give the armor save ignoring wound to the 1 type B model and continue passing out wounds as normal so that in the end the 3 type A models must save against 6 wounds and the 1 type B model can save against 2 wounds...this is however irrelevant because it automatically dies due the armor save ignoring wound and the defender has effectively reduced the number of wounds from 9 to 7. i hope this situation is clear, basically my question is what is the correct course of action??

thx for the input

1. Yes they are that stupid....

2. Yes, they are scoring units.

3. No, there is no remove unsaveable wounds first. You would allocate and then remove. So in that same circumstance with three wounds that give no save, you can dump all three of them on model type B and put the six saveable wounds on the type A group. Model B dies tot he three unsaved wounds and Models A take six saves.

pfoh wrote:
1. can your own units block line of sight?? there is an insert about models in the same unit not blocking LOS, but it was pointed out to me that there are no explicit rule that says your own infantry units do not block LOS, therefor they do. are my own units so F***ing stupid that they cant lean to one side or get out of the way when the unit behind them is shooting??
thx for the input

There is nothing in the page of LOS rules that says specificly that your INF models (besides the squad that is firing exception thing) or intervening enemy INF block line of sight. HOWEVER in at least two places it both suggests that they do, and that they do not.

The place it agrees is in the exceptions page for cover saves saying that if you shoot though the gaps in intervening models you confer the cover save. Well why would I need to shoot though the gaps unless models block line of sight? It may say that under the infranty rules but i do not remember it.

It disagrees with the example diagram showing a space marine unit shooting at multiple ork units. If you read along it states that someone is shooting something and basically it would be a "illegal" shot if models blocked LOS. You just gotta check it out to see what I am refering to exaclty.

Anyways 100% unclear either way.

And for what its worth I called GW today, and they say INF models do block line of sight, but again could not tell me where in the rules it states it.

"if you can see it you can shoot it" This is how LOS works in 5th ed... its THAT simple. In practice posed models on their bases don't completely block sight, gaps in legs arms etc. So they provide cover

1) As Red_Lives says: If you can see something you can shoot it in 5th edition. If you can't see it (even if because of friendly models) then you can't shoot it. The only exception are individual models in the firing unit (which you have to pretend you can see through).


2) Yes, they most definitely still are but if they're locked in combat then that means the objective is almost certainly contested anyway.


3) Check out the diagram on page 25. It shows that when you have complex units and lots of wounds you are most definitely allowed to 'dump' extra wounds to minimize casualties. This is absolutely allowed in the rules.

I have a couple of questions as well

1)If I am reading the rules right, weapons like Hunter killer missles and seeker missles that require no LOS from the weapon unless the tank that fire's them can see them it would count as obscured?

2) Would units be given cover saves if Smart Missles/seeker/Hunterkiller missles were fired "Through" a unit into another or through area terrain even though LOS is not needed to fire these weapons? I'm not sure on Hunter killer missles, but I know that Smart and seeker missles are assumed to go in a straight line from the vehicle to the target.

yakface wrote:
1) As Red_Lives says: If you can see something you can shoot it in 5th edition. If you can't see it (even if because of friendly models) then you can't shoot it. The only exception are individual models in the firing unit (which you have to pretend you can see through).

It makes sense to me, I just wanted to know for explaining it to others. They make specific examples about everything else in the book, I don't get why they would not specifically address one of the most misunderstood issues out of everyone I have talked to so far. Did they happen to talk about it in their podcast, or stuff they released last weekend?

Sirslamb wrote:I have a couple of questions as well

1)If I am reading the rules right, weapons like Hunter killer missles and seeker missles that require no LOS from the weapon unless the tank that fire's them can see them it would count as obscured?

2) Would units be given cover saves if Smart Missles/seeker/Hunterkiller missles were fired "Through" a unit into another or through area terrain even though LOS is not needed to fire these weapons? I'm not sure on Hunter killer missles, but I know that Smart and seeker missles are assumed to go in a straight line from the vehicle to the target.

1. Yep, unless the weapon says something about not granting cover saves (IIRC, one of the Tau missiles does that, forget which one). Note. HK missiles require LOS...............

2. Yep, unless (again) the weapon denies cover saves.

Sirslamb wrote:

1)If I am reading the rules right, weapons like Hunter killer missles and seeker missles that require no LOS from the weapon unless the tank that fire's them can see them it would count as obscured?

2) Would units be given cover saves if Smart Missles/seeker/Hunterkiller missles were fired "Through" a unit into another or through area terrain even though LOS is not needed to fire these weapons? I'm not sure on Hunter killer missles, but I know that Smart and seeker missles are assumed to go in a straight line from the vehicle to the target.

Hi.
1.) From what I am reading, they would "count as" a Optional weapon (pg. 58 Pintle Mounted, bolt on etc..) Their description for firing/LOS is on pg 59. Basically they would fire 360 deg if mounted on a turret, or 45 deg if mounted on the hull. Firing them unless they are "defensive" count as firing a main weapon, and thus all those rules apply (LOS etc pg 58).

2. You cant fire "though" anything unless you "gap it". I think and I am not 100% for sure but seekers count as being fired from the markerlight? So you would resolve the LOS from there? I do not have the Tau dex on me, but its either that or the tank its fired from's LOS on the target armor facing. I don think you can just get free unobstructed hits with these.

Well seeker missles arent fired and can't by the model that has them equiped (unless it has a network markerlight). They are fired by using marker lights not the vehicle. They have unlimited range and can always be fired as long as the vehicle isnt destroyed, and the only LOS restriction really is for the Markerlight hit.

Weapon mounting doesnt really factor in a whole lot because the missle does not require any kind of LOS to be fired.

In the markerlight entry it says "It allows a vehicle to fire a seeker missle" by raw it would be comming from the vehicle and grant a cover save.

But the idea that a guardsmen picking his nose would cause the seeker missle to vear of course and miss the Comisar behind him is a tough sell for me (this is obviously an exageration but the imagry is funny)

The Smart missle Says that the target gains the benifit of cover that they are in or touching it, if it lies between them and the firer.

Sirslamb wrote:1)If I am reading the rules right, weapons like Hunter killer missles and seeker missles that require no LOS from the weapon unless the tank that fire's them can see them it would count as obscured?

2) Would units be given cover saves if Smart Missles/seeker/Hunterkiller missles were fired "Through" a unit into another or through area terrain even though LOS is not needed to fire these weapons? I'm not sure on Hunter killer missles, but I know that Smart and seeker missles are assumed to go in a straight line from the vehicle to the target.

Yes in both cases. Cover (or lack there of) is determined by line of sight in all cases other than barage blasts. The shooting rules also specify that when determining cover that any models in the target unit that are out of line of sight are considered to be in cover.