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Last night I'm playing against a guy. He's got a squad of templars in a Land Raider Crusader, and I've got ork boyz. He drives up, but doesn't disembark as he's a little out of charge range. I move my guys up and assault him, blocking all three doors.

My powerklaws failed to scratch the paint on his tank, but it brought up the following what-if question.

In 5e, on page 67, in the first paragraph, it states, "Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy. If any models cannot disembark because or enemies or because they would end up in impassable terrain, the unit can perform an 'emergency diembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicle's hull, but the unit can't do anything else for the rest of the turn."

In the second column, under Destroyed - Wrecked, it says, "Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed."

So, if I block the doors on a transport, can the squad use this special 'emergency disembarkation' move, or are they destroyed? My initial reaction is that they're destroyed, as the emergeny disembarkation seems to be specifically for voluntary disembarks, and the "any model that cannot disembark" under the Destroyed - Wrecked entry looks like it overrides this.

(as a separate, interesting note, blocking the doors on a vehicle that explodes does nothing, as survivors are placed in the wreckage, not outside the doors.)

Redbeard wrote: My initial reaction is that they're destroyed, as the emergeny disembarkation seems to be specifically for voluntary disembarks,

There is no 'Voluntary Disembark' rule.

Just 'Disembarking'

The Wrecked result forces the unit to Disembark. Since it doesn't specify otherwise, they do so using the rules for Disembarking.

So they deploy within 2" of an Access Point.
If they can't do that, they deploy within 2" of the vehicle.
If they can't do that, they are destroyed.

I can't decide and I'll tell you why:

Insaniak has it absolutely right by the RAW. I think it was a huge oversight on their part though and I agree that they must have been trying to seperate those two situations. It just doesn't make sense that they are allowed to warp through troops surrounding the vehicle. Plus the first section simply ends by telling us that if they can't perform anormal disembarkation and they can't perform an 'emergency disembarkation' they can't disembark. Why wouldn't they be destroyed? Probably because that section is only talking about disembarking in their own movement phase. Oh, the toops can warp to within 1" of me but they can't do anything else during MY turn!? That's awesome since I would fully expect that unit to be able to leap from the wreckage and assault me during my own turn normally!

The only saving grace for those of us that try to trap embarked passengers like this is that units that perform 'emergency disembarkation' cannot do anything else during the (player) turn. So they won't be able to strike back if they're assaulted or do nything but take their lumps until the next turn. Having a second unit ready to assault the passengers is going to be tricky to set up though and will probably not even be posssible most of the time anyway.

The rule was placed there to stop tactics like the old tau "feeding frenzy." 3 piranha would block access hatches and kill entire squads, so they changed it to 2" of hull instead of access hatch.

Glaive Company CO wrote: Why wouldn't they be destroyed? Probably because that section is only talking about disembarking in their own movement phase.

Not specifically, no.

It's talking about Disembarking, whenever that may be.

The 'wrecked' result simply modifies the normal Disembarking rules slightly, by stating that models who can not disembark are destroyed.


I don't see why you would think this is a problem... it's perfectly acceptable to allow an emergency disembark when the models are getting out voluntarily, but an oversight to allow models to perform an emergency disembark when their vehicle is wrecked...?

Oh no. It's not perfectly acceptable. I think this is in the top 3 dumbest things in V5. Allowing units to make a voluntary emergency disembarkation move during their turn is just as stupid. Thankfully, though there is at least a consequence as the troops are now exposed to fire during the next turn.

Allowing it during the opponent's turn is even more idiotic though since not only are there no ill consequences but the unit that destroyed the vehicle is more than likely in for a world of hurt as they are assaulted or shot at at close range or both!

Like I said, by RAW it's going to favor the embarked troops, but it certainly doesn't make any sense.

The whole point of the emergency disembarkation rule (as far as I can tell) is to make it much harder to instantly kill the unit inside the transport. You now literally have to surround the vehicle to do so.

I don't personally think its any stranger than embarked models surviving through their vehicle exploding while they're inside.

Nobody likes a game where the transports are deathtraps, so I don't mind a little reality-bending to make a better game.

Glaive Company CO wrote:Oh no. It's not perfectly acceptable. I think this is in the top 3 dumbest things in V5. Allowing units to make a voluntary emergency disembarkation move during their turn is just as stupid. Thankfully, though there is at least a consequence as the troops are now exposed to fire during the next turn.

Strokes and folks, I guess.

Personally, I'm happy to see the ability to destroy a unit simply by standing in front of the door toned down somewhat, particularly given how many vehicles have a single access point.

And it makes far more sense to me for those models to be able to scramble out any which way they can when forced out of a wrecked vehicle than it does for them to be able to do so voluntarily.

In real-world terms, the ability to leave a vehicle when the doors are blocked is a little harder to explain. In game terms, though, I think it's an excellent change.

Yeah, I know! I usually try to look at the rules with an impartial view but I just felt like "GW wouldn't do that to my melta gun toting veterans would they? It MUST be an oversight!" Meanwhile every marine player is probably saying "Thank god GW finally saw the light! I CAN keep my expensive troops in their transports now!"

It's all good!

Can i ask you another question? Skimmer-transport moving flat-out and find itself shoot to pieces (destroyed wrecked). Rules say that passangers in skimmer moving flat-out can not disembark. And if they can not disembark they must be dead, as it wrighten in "Effects of damage, results on passangers". Am i right?

They can disembark. If you're in a rhino and you embark, and then it gets blown up you can still disembark even though you normally can't embark and disembark in the same turn.

The "effects of damage" section tells us that you have to disembark if the vehicle is wrecked. No matter what else has happened that turn.

Ok, here's a quick question.... can an enemy unit emergency disembark ontop of their own destroyed vehichle?

Angron wrote:Ok, here's a quick question.... can an enemy unit emergency disembark ontop of their own destroyed vehichle?

I would say yes, if a vehicle explodes it becomes an area of difficult terrain, if it is a wreck the vehicle model counts as both difficult and dangerous terrain, since you can disembark into any terrain that isn't impassable I think it's fine to disembark onto the wrecked vehicle.

Oh no. It's not perfectly acceptable. I think this is in the top 3 dumbest things in V5. Allowing units to make a voluntary emergency disembarkation move during their turn is just as stupid. Thankfully, though there is at least a consequence as the troops are now exposed to fire during the next turn.

I think you have to take this sort of change with a bit of perspective, it's obviously a direction they have chosen as they did a similar thing in 4th edition when they made it much harder to kill a unit that is falling back by having your own troops behind them, now they can can move around your guys as long as they don't double back and head forward, before if the fastest path to the board edge crossed your guys, splat (this is how I recall atleast)

Drunkspleen wrote:I would say yes, if a vehicle explodes it becomes an area of difficult terrain,

If the vehicle explodes, the passengers don't disembark.

You remove the vehicle, and place any passengers not killed in the explosion where the vehicle used to be.

if it is a wreck the vehicle model counts as both difficult and dangerous terrain, since you can disembark into any terrain that isn't impassable I think it's fine to disembark onto the wrecked vehicle.

It doesn't become a wreck (and therefore terrain) until after the passengers have disembarked.

insaniak wrote:If the vehicle explodes, the passengers don't disembark.

You remove the vehicle, and place any passengers not killed in the explosion where the vehicle used to be.

...

It doesn't become a wreck (and therefore terrain) until after the passengers have disembarked.

Wow, that's some awesome reading comprehension I have going , insaniak is right, in the event of exploded it tells you to put them where the vehicle was, in the event of destroyed it occurs after the disembark. So there's really no question on the matter.

Another point was brought to my attention this weekend. Lets say you deployed a wavesperpent on your board edge with the back right on the edge. If the serpent gets destroyed, can the passengers emergency dismebark? Essentially, the board edge is neither impassible terrain or enemy models, so it seems like emergency dismebarking would not be possible.

winterman wrote:Another point was brought to my attention this weekend. Lets say you deployed a wavesperpent on your board edge with the back right on the edge. If the serpent gets destroyed, can the passengers emergency dismebark? Essentially, the board edge is neither impassible terrain or enemy models, so it seems like emergency dismebarking would not be possible.

When you disembark it says that each model is "deployed" within 2" of it, deploy is a word that has a certain meaning and is used to indicate putting models on the table in a certain location. There's no rules explicitly stating you can't disembark off the table, but I can't see how models can go off the table and be "deployed"