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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/21 08:23:14
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I like building my list in such a way I can buy them bit by bit in 250ish point chunks. I'll post the ultimate end of that list, the 2,000 point final version. This is sort of an alternate take on what I've been considering, but that list was looking... weirdly symmetrical and I was having trouble cropping it down to 2,000. I haven't had much play experience with Eldar (partly because I'm reluctant to buy too much without knowing what will work and still be interesting to play), but I feel this list might be... pretty bad.
Notes:
I've got Striking Scorpions because I like the models. I won't change them for banshees.
Tactics wise, most of the army is left in reserve, with pathfinders on the table if I can put them somewhere safe enough.
Striking Scorpions ride their serpent in from a flank. I'm hoping the 2/3 chance of getting them where I want them will pay off.
Walkers come in on the long edge to keep them safe.
The HQ units ride in a serpent dedicated to the main Dire Avenger squad.
The other Dire Avenger squads ride Falcons until they can be safely deployed to hold objectives, or the Falcons are needed to pick up another 6-man squad.
Bikes are for last minute capture/contesting. I'm concerned about not having them 5 strong.
Falcons are primarly going to hover around objectives, spewing fire or moving to tackle rear armour of vehciles.
I know mixing walker weapons is frowned upon, but I probably can't model them all with scatterlasers and I think the EML will yield enough hits and be versatile enough to be worth it.
HQ
Autarch: Fusion gun, power weapon, mandiblasters. 100 points.
Doomseer: Doom, singing spear. 83 points.
Elites
Harlequin Troupe: x6, Troupe master, Shadowseer, kisses. 178 points.
Striking Scorpions: x7, Exarch with scorpion claw, shadowstrike. 159 points.
Dedicated Waveserpent: Twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones. 145 points.
Troops
Dire Avengers: x 10, Exarch with power weapon and shimmershield, bladestorm, defend. 177 points.
Dedicated Waveserpent: Twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones. 145 points.
Dire Avengers: x 6, Exarch with twin shuriken catapults, bladestorm. 104 points.
Dire Avengers: x 6, Exarch with twin shuriken catapults, bladestorm. 104 points.
Pathfinders: x 6. 144
Guardian Jetbike Squadron: x 4, 1 shuriken cannon. 98 points.
Heavy Support
Falcon: scatterlaser, shuriken cannon, holo field, spirit stones. 185 points.
Falcon: scatterlaser, shuriken cannon, holo field, spirit stones. 185 points.
Warwalker Squadron: x3: #1 with 2 EML, #2,3 with 2 scatterlasers. 190 points.
TOTAL: 1997
So what am I doing horribly wrong? What have I overlooked?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/21 08:28:45
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Well, I'd give the Scorpions' Serpent to the 2nd DA squad, since the Scorpions can infiltrate and this can be devastating if they are held in reserve and come from one board edge.
The rest looks okay.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/21 08:31:18
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Well, I'm wondering why you've given your Striking Scorpion Exarch the Shadow Strike power when the squad has a dedicated transport.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/21 08:42:48
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Because the Scorpions can Outflank inside their Serpent now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/21 10:50:25
Subject: Re:Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Regular Dakkanaut
vancouver bc
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Alright well this is what I get looking at your list:
Overall it doesn't seem bad, but for 2k points I really don't know where the punch is coming from. Most of your troop units are too weak to stand up to anything, and can't put out enough damage to really pose a threat. Not to mention having two tiny DA squads with a tiny bike squad will haemorrage kill points in annihilation missions. Thats one big side effect of small eldar squads these days...too easy to kill! [i know you said they would be in the falcon, but I dont particularly like this idea].
The HQs are ok, and any improvements are going to cost you points out the nose. Eldrad for instance. The amount Eldrad can benefit an army like this is fairly priceless, but he is expensive so its your choice.
For elites, any Eldar army without fire dragons at 2k is sorely missing out. The harlies are still viable in my opinion though, and scorpions seem to have their uses, even if I am not confident in them. People praise them, and put a lot of emphasis on their outflank move, so if you are set on scorpions, go for it. In my experience they are ok, but don't win games for me like banshees do. Especially with doom. In particular, against biker armies or MCs scorps will bounce off.While you have harlies to tackle the occasional MC, i'm not confident scorpions and harlies make for good enough anti MEQ CC units. Overall just get some dragons though
Troops are a little spread out. At 1850 I like to take 2x10 DAs in a serpent, 1x5 DAs in a serpent [just keep them in there the whole game...doesn't cost as much as a falcon and has more reliable shooting. Giving tiny squads like these upgrades seems like a big waste to me though. exarch+ bladestorm is a lot of points for something that might get used once a game], and then 1x3 bikes which i leave in reserve for as long as possible.
Also, for my serpents I tend towards EMLs as they are a lot cheaper than BLs, have templates, and as tanks often have 4+ saves, its not so bad when they do nothing. Also anything over av12 can be dealt with by dragons.
Back to the DAs, just having another squad of DAs in a serpent is a huge difference. One floating around on its own doesn't seem to achieve enough in my experience, but two can really rock out. And with two, you don't really need to get bladestorm. Doom is enough. Plus with two serpents you can block assaults and LOS to the DAs, allowing them to shoot for more rounds successively - something you can't do with bladestorm, and which tends to be more effective for me.
The pathfinders are so-so. They won't achieve very much with just one squad I dont think, and they are quite pricey. If you want to take them as objective grabbers, might as well make them rangers and keep them in reserve as long as possible, then run them around out of LOS if you can. I would personally either drop them or load up on lots more for volume of fire, but thats a different army list altogether.
For the heavies, two falcons works. The weapon loadouts are totally your choice, and not getting VEs seems fine these days. With harlies and dragons in them they would be quite nasty. I don't know about putting  DAs though.. =/ Maybe right at the end of the game, but having DAs in them the whole game seems a waste of potential.
For the walkers, with so many skimmers flying around causing havoc, they could get away unscathed for a decent amount of time, but I would definitely recommend making their firepower more dedicated. Maybe 2xwalkers with 4 EMLs, or 3. I have heard 1/2-1/2 EML/ SL can be good, so you could give it a shot. I dont really know. For mine I like the idea of flanking 3 with 6 shuriken cannons, simply for the cheapness, and with so many serpents in the opponents face, killing them could be made more difficult.
As for your list as a whole, it has some good elements, but i'm just not feeling the synergy. For AT shooting you just have the wave serpent BLs, but for their cost, and the fact that tanks will often get 4+ saves these days, it seems an inefficient use of points. For anti-troop you have the falcons, one squad of mounted DAs, potentially another small mounted squad, and the pathfinders/bikes. But the synergy is just not quite there for me. I could be proven wrong though. In terms of CC, its just the autarch, harlies and scorps. The harlies are a glass cannon, and can take out an MC or pin a squad, but are not going to rampage through an army. The scorpions are the same, especially with their squad size and no- AP. As for the autarch, you really don't want him in CC.
Overall, its the basic idea of a nasty reserves list, but for 2k it just doesn't have the viciousness that it could potentially have. Bear in mind that for objectives you only have to control One objective with your troops, and just contest the others. And also bear in mind that in annihilation, Every unit is worth 1 kp. be it 10 wraithguard, 3 bikes or 30 orks. Having too many tiny troops squads is not going to be that beneficial in either of these situations.
Just some food for thought - i don't want to just dictate my list to you, especially since it is far from perfect in the first place...
happy gaming!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/21 16:07:38
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Ancient Chaos Terminator
South Pasadena
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One thing that I have noticed in 5th is that squads need to be beefier due to the emphasis on troops. Marines will always be in 10 man squads and Orks will be in 20+ man squads. because of this, Eldar need to get their squads up to 10 man also to have any effectiveness. Due to killpoints used in 33% of them missions, you don't want to have a bunch of small fragile squads giving up easy KP's. My Eldar armies now have about 11KP's and my Ork lists have 9KP's. Don't give away easy KP's.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/22 18:16:11
Subject: Re:Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fresh-Faced New User
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The kill point thing is a decent point.
With the critique so far, I've changed my list to the one below. Tactics remain mostly the same, with the Seer staying with the squad the Wraithlord accompanies (and can get cover from, I believe?) and the Autarch running as either a counter-charge (with the wraithlord) if the Scorps Outflank or staying with them on their Serpent if they don't. The Wraithlord and guardian squad run a little extra anti-armour (bright lances, singing spear and wraithlord's seem good at tearing up enemy armour in 5th, pretty much guaranteed to penetrate most things they hit). Fire Dragons do exactly what you'd expect.
HQ
Autarch: Fusion gun, power weapon, mandiblasters. 100 points.
Doomseer: Doom, singing spear. 83 points.
Elites
Harlequin Troupe: x6, Troupe master, Shadowseer, kisses. 178 points.
Striking Scorpions: x10, Exarch with scorpion claw, shadowstrike. 207 points.
Scorpion Dedicated Waveserpent: Twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones. 145 points.
Fire Dragons: x6, Exarch with dragon's breath flamer and crack shot. 113 points.
Troops
Dire Avengers: x 10, Exarch with power weapon and shimmershield, bladestorm, defend. 177 points.
DA Dedicated Waveserpent: Twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones. 145 points.
Guardians: x 15, with bright lance and warlock with conceal and singing spear. 193 points.
Pathfinders: x 6. 144
Heavy Support
Falcon: scatterlaser, shuriken cannon, holo field, spirit stones. 185 points.
Wraithlord: Two flamers, wraithsword, brightlance. 140 points.
Warwalker Squadron: x3: #1 with 2 EML, #2,3 with 2 scatterlasers. 190 points.
TOTAL: 2000 exactly
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/22 19:41:01
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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you really need to up your firepower, not the model count so much.
Wraithlords give them 2 shooty guns, not the wraithsword. I like brightlance and starcannon, but brightlance and ELM is probably better now due to all the 4+ cover available.
I liked the dire avengers and would take them over a 15man guardian squad, if you run guardians do jetbikes. Give the wavesperpent to the fire dragons, and let the scorpions walk on foot.
I would probably give the autarch either wings or a jetbike to get him where he needs to be.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/07/22 20:14:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/22 20:51:45
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hm. The Wraithlord doesn't need the sword to do what I want, so dropping 2 guardians for an EML should work, leaving my points total on 1999. I sorta just love the look of the sword, and he only has three attacks on the charge so I worry his S10/MC status will go to waste.
The guardians are there for screening, and anti-tank through the warlock and weapon platform. I want at least two psykers on field for wraithsight.
The Dragons have a Falcon already, however, and sending the Scorpions on foot as a general thing seems wasteful to me; If I'm not Outflanking, I want my Autarch with them, so they can't Infiltrate. If they can't Infiltrate, Running them without Fleet of Foot seems counter-intuitive.
Wings/jump/jet on the Autarch without a squad of appropriate type to accompany him seems pointless; separating him from a squad to make use of it will get him killed, for the most, either from shooting or assault. ICs only have protection within units now, not near them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/25 07:11:43
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hm, bump?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/25 10:36:18
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fixture of Dakka
.................................... Searching for Iscandar
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You have alot of stuff that confuses me.
Harlies + Scorpions, why both?
Scorpions cannot assault the turn they arrive, so why bother with outflanking?
Don't use Autarchs for killing enemy tanks. They roll '1' alot.
You have insufficient tank killing power. That guardian unit with the bright lance is a loser. Ditch the lance for a scatter.
You've combined shooty, mech, MC, and barebones troops in an Eldar list.
This is bad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/25 13:46:50
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Could you post up some new tactics with the list you described? I'm not following what the idea of the list is either. It just doesn't seem to have any focus.
I'd agree with Stelek. A largish guardian squad doing nothing because it's heavy weapon is trying to take out a tank.
No guide? War Walkers with guide are omg crazy deadly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/26 19:20:24
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Stelek wrote:You have alot of stuff that confuses me.
Harlies + Scorpions, why both?
One single assault element is hardly enough, and the two units have different purposes. Scorpions, with 3+ armour, are good for the long-haul and fighting units I wouldn't want to waste my Harlies on. Harlies rend, and the Veil can tempt people to waste shooting; if they fail the roll, that unit loses the chance to fire at all. Fun times.
Scorpions cannot assault the turn they arrive, so why bother with outflanking?
Practically nothing can assault the turn it arrives from reserves. Hardly seems worth considering. With their armour save, they should be able to disembark somewhere appropriate and get into the fight late, or serve another purpose. Flexibility is why to bother, and also experimentation.
Stelek wrote:Don't use Autarchs for killing enemy tanks. They roll '1' alot.
That's terrible reasoning. Perhaps saving the 10 points for upgrading the farseer could make it worth it, but the 1/6 chance to miss? Everything has that.
Stelek wrote:You have insufficient tank killing power. That guardian unit with the bright lance is a loser. Ditch the lance for a scatter.
This... is also terrible reasoning. You tell me to lose the fusion gun for my Autarch, then tell me I don't have enough anti-armour, then tell me to ditch more of my anti-armour? I appreciate the help, but you're lacking in consistency.
Stelek wrote:You've combined shooty, mech, MC, and barebones troops in an Eldar list.
This is bad.
Why? Telling me it's bad isn't useful without an explanation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/07/26 19:38:27
Subject: Working on modular Eldar list up to 2,000 points
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Lormax wrote:Could you post up some new tactics with the list you described? I'm not following what the idea of the list is either. It just doesn't seem to have any focus.
Guardians march with Fareseer and Wraithlord. Dire Avengers deployed where needed and shipped where appropriate. Scorpions either Outflank, come from reserves or deploy straight on within or next to their serpent. Harlequins give opponent something to be concerned about, doing their hard-to-shoot-with-large-threat-range thing where needed. Rangers cover objectives in range and/or focus on their usual targets. Warwalkers come in reserves if going second and engage in massed-fire. The falcon uses its speed and firepower to multi-task as anti-armour, anti-infantry and transport for small squads (such as the Fire Dragons)
Serpents, guardians and wraithlord run main anti-armour with the wraithlord engaging in assault against vehicles primarily. A fusion gun and pair of singing spears run backup anti-tank, as do krak missiles from the walker.
I think that covers it.
Lormax wrote:I'd agree with Stelek. A largish guardian squad doing nothing because it's heavy weapon is trying to take out a tank.
Their shuricats have a 12" range. They're not doing anything regardless. Their purpose is ablative wounds for HQ, screening and a move-and-fire bright lance. The main reason I'm considering dropping them right now is that I don't think they'll be able to screen the wraithlord (I lack models to check with). I'm not sure what I can do with the points, however: Eldar Troops options are Guardians, Jetbikes and Dire Avengers, and I refuse to buy the ugly, 20 year old Jetbikes we have available.
Lormax wrote:No guide? War Walkers with guide are omg crazy deadly.
Hmm, my last battle agrees with you. There were a lot of nob-bikers I could have killed had I Guided them, however the range of the power is only 6"; either the seer stands back with the walkers and gets shot, or the walkers stand forward with the seer and get shot. Their battlefield positions are too far apart.
If I drop the Guardians for a footslogging- DA squad, the Seer can accompany and Guide them while Dooming choice targets.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/07/26 19:38:48
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