Eldar Dive Bomber Tactics

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**Eclipse024**

I have been looking through the new rules with ramming and I thought up a very interesting tactic to use with a star engined serpent with 5 fire dragons in it. If you are having trouble with a land raider just back up and ram it with the serpent. Even if you dont kill the land raider you will probably kill your own tank. This lets you dump out the fire dragons who, if they pass a leadership test, can fry the land raider, or it can fry whatever was inside the land raider.

together this squad costs 190 points bare bones. It will defenetly take out any one hard vehicle a game, maybe two if I am playing guard.

I cant find anything in the rule book that says you would not be able to do this, so please tell me if this is incorrect.

**squall8187**

if i understand you correctly, you could do this, but not with the star engines. Ramming with star engines has already been debated and unfortunately, it can't be done. reread the rules regarding ramming, ramming has to be done in the movement phase, and the star engine movement is done in the shooting phase.

**Eclipse024**

That is a point i did not think of. Oh well that saves you 15 points and at 18 inches a strength nine hit followed by the meltas is death to any land raider.

**Kallbrand**

A unit of firedragons will fry a LR so there isnt really any need to ram it.

**Eclipse024**

but if you destroy it with the ramming you can fry whatever it was transporting or pick another target. And if you dont blow up you are pretty servivable till next turn when you can pop out and melta some more.

**Drunkspleen**

It's interesting that the way the rules work you could destroy your own vehicle with ramming while moving 13-24 inches and have the unit inside fire still, despite the fact they normally cannot disembark or fire from inside the vehicle at these speeds.

**Stelek**

Yes, that's why Ork Trukks were nerfed to 18".

You'd run 25", ram, blow up, and assault.

It was lame.

**wight_widow**

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/214483.page

link to the thread debating star engines and ramming.

I don't play and I don't have any inside source on FAQs.

However, if my reading comprehension didn't cut out on me, the argument rotates around the definition of the phrase "normal movement." The strongest argument against allowing it asserts that "normal movement" implies moving according to the normal rules for vehicles under only the heading vehicle movement. The interesting part of this is that according to such a definition, fast vehicles period can't ram, as moving over 12" is an exception to the main vehicle rules, ramming requires you to move as fast as you can, so if you can only move at maximum speed by using "abnormal movement" (i.e. fast vehicle) you can't ram.

**Savnock**

Eclipse024, good catch. Ram as an "escape mechanism" to allow deployment of a unit despite 24" movement is an expensive tactic, but could really help out when you're desperate. Definitely file this one under Dirty 5th Ed. Tricks.

**Danny Internets**

The interesting part of this is that according to such a definition, fast vehicles period can't ram, as moving over 12" is an exception to the main vehicle rules, ramming requires you to move as fast as you can, so if you can only move at maximum speed by using "abnormal movement" (i.e. fast vehicle) you can't ram.

Not to mention any Ork vehicles with the Red Paint-Job upgrades or Blood Angels Rhinos.

**Martndemus**

wight_widow wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/214483.page

link to the thread debating star engines and ramming.

I don't play and I don't have any inside source on FAQs.

However, if my reading comprehension didn't cut out on me, the argument rotates around the definition of the phrase "normal movement." The strongest argument against allowing it asserts that "normal movement" implies moving according to the normal rules for vehicles under only the heading vehicle movement. The interesting part of this is that according to such a definition, fast vehicles period can't ram, as moving over 12" is an exception to the main vehicle rules, ramming requires you to move as fast as you can, so if you can only move at maximum speed by using "abnormal movement" (i.e. fast vehicle) you can't ram.

You sure haven't read a word of the rulebook.
It says you always have to go the maximum speed the vehicle is capable of, so 24" rams are possible. (But it's very rare that you need exact 24" to reach the enemy tank so s10 would be the maximum possible with a Wave serpent/falcon/prism. )
Also you arent allowed to shoot with your vehicle when you ram so you already give up shooting so use of star engines is a big NO

**Martndemus**

I correct myself on star engines being used after ramming.
I just had a

moment.
You can see using star engines as a sort of run move.
So:
If you have a squad with heavy weapons and it moves, it cannot shoot, but it may run
If a wave serpent rams/goes flat out, it cannot shoot, but it may use star engines.

So it is possible to ram and use star engines, if it's wise to do so is another thing.

Note: Tank shock/ramming takes place in the movement phase, star engines are used in the shooting phase.

**ibushi**

I think that is a pretty good clarification of how the rules lay it out, and that is the way I play it. So you can ram in the movement phase [up to 24"], then if you are still alive you can move somewhere else with you star engines. The only factors that would inhibit using star engines are immobilized and destroyed, I think, so you can always move with them, but you can't ram again.