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Deamon Prince Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission 135
Deamon Prince Mark of Nurgle, Winds of Change 160

Noise Marines 11 Champion w Doom Siren, 8xSonic Blaster, 1xBlastmaster 330
Noise Marines 10 Champion w Doom Siren, 7xSonic Blaster, 1xBlastmaster 305
Noise Marines 10 Champion w Doom Siren, 7xSonic Blaster, 1xBlastmaster 305

Raptor Squad 10 Champion with Pair of Lighting Claws & Meltabombs, Mark of Nurgle , 2xMeltaguns 315

Obliterator Cult 2 150
Obliterator Cult 2 150
Obliterator Cult 2 150
2000

So the Noise marines and the Obliterators spend their time shooting, obviously. The noise marines will move away 6" if the if it looks like they will be assaulted before the next turn to either a) delay the assault a turn or b) pull the assulters closer to one of my cc units. The Deamon Prince with the lash will be moving units out of cover and into the sights of my marines. The other prince and the raptors will move into a position to throw off the timing of the enemies charge with hopes of the enemies arriving at my gun line piece meal.

Weaknesses will, of course, be armies with lots of tanks and horde armies.

Thoughts? Comment? Good army or am I outta my mind?

I've written a similar list, back when I played predominantly Slaanesh, and I had many similarities to yours. However, there are a few things I would say about this list.

-You don't need the Nurgle DP, really. If you want another DP, do one identical to the Slaaneshi one. The main stars here are the EC, and the more lashes you have, the nastier those blastmasters will be.
-The Noise Champions don't need the Doom Sirens, nor do the squads need the Champion at all. Their job is to shoot things, and nothing else. If you get close enough to use the Doom Siren, then they will get caught in close combat. While they can fight decently in CC due to their Initiative, you waste points on them every turn they aren't shooting.
-You should break up the NM into smaller squads, so you can shoot at more units and get one or two extra blastmasters.
-You have a TON of points wrapped up in the Raptors, but they're only one unit, and you have spent points on both CC and shooting toys. If you want raptors for the counter-attack, that may be justifiable, but I think you're better off with more shooting units. Also, if you use them to stave off an assault, then the enemy could still win, and move into you next turn.
-Obliterators are your worst choice for anti-tank. for 450 points (or thereabouts, free up some points from the Raptors), you could get 3 Las predators. That's 3 extra TLed lascannons over your Obliterators, and a great deal more survivability.

With those changes, you should be able to deal with tanks. (And I don't know what you're saying.... against horde armies, you're set! Look at all those Sonic Blasters!)

Burning Star IV wrote:-Obliterators are your worst choice for anti-tank. for 450 points (or thereabouts, free up some points from the Raptors), you could get 3 Las predators. That's 3 extra TLed lascannons over your Obliterators, and a great deal more survivability.

With those changes, you should be able to deal with tanks. (And I don't know what you're saying.... against horde armies, you're set! Look at all those Sonic Blasters!)

I have to disagree with this statement. Oblits are the BEST anti-tank unit Chaos has to offer. People will try and convince you that Predators are the new hotness in 5e because they can get cover saves too. What they fail to mention is that Predators can be stunned, shaken, and/or destroyed by one lucky shot. This does not happen to Oblits. A pair of Oblits is FAR and AWAY more survivable than a Pred. Even if you spring for Possesion, you reduce the core competency of the Pred by lowering its BS (which btw applies for Vindi's too with the new blast rules) by 16%. Not to mention that 2 Oblits are TWO lascannons, which is always better than a TL weapon. Are three extra TL BS 3 Lascannons worth the REDUCTION in survivability and at an additional cost in points? I for one think not.

But as to your list: I would add an additional Lash HQ rather than the Nurgle one. Or, if that's not your style at least give him the MoTz to get a better Invul save. I personally like that more than an additional T. Also allows for multiple Psychic powers. Warptime & Wind is a good combo. Warptime also works in assault.

That raptor unit is a huge point sink. As are the NM fully kitted out like that. Your squads seem to favor the 'jack of all trades, masters of none' mentaility. I'd recommend committing each squad to a single purpose. You could have 3 minimum size NM squads with Blast masters, 2 big squads with Sonic Blasters, and one with Champion, Doomsiren and Sonic Blasters for counter charge / assault. Find a specific niche for the Raptors, and kit them for that.

Burning Star IV wrote:
-Obliterators are your worst choice for anti-tank.

Do you even play Chaos?

Oblits are the best choice for anti-tank because they can ALSO do anti-infantry. Those predators might be great but what happens when you face infantry-heavy armies? Or when you need to clean 15 hormagaunts off of an objective? Nothing's going to do it better than a few obliterators deepstriking and laying out some twinlinked flamer goodness.

I second the specialization idea. I keep 2-3 squads of noisemarines in the back, and send forward other ones with sonic blasters and the doomsiren with a power weapon to do anti-infantry, take objectives, and assault if need be. Ideally, though, they can stay out of assault and kill things with that AP3 template and massed sonic blasters.

I second the specialization, too.
Two squads in the backfield with blastmasters and two offensive units with Rhinos that can be used as moving hills for the advance of the Raptors.

So something more like this then?

Deamon Prince Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission 135
Deamon Prince Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission 135

Noise Marines 5 Blastmaster 140
Noise Marines 5 Blastmaster 140
Noise Marines 9 8xSonic Blasters, BlastMaster 260
Noise Marines 8 8xSonic Blasters, BlastMaster 260
Noise Marines 7 Champion with Power Weapon & Doom Siren, 6xSonic Blasters, Rhino 250
Noise Marines 7 Champion with Power Weapon & Doom Siren, 6xSonic Blasters, Rhino 250

Obliterators 2 150 150
Obliterators 2 150 150
Obliterators 2 150 150
1995

I find that a squad of supporting Termies with combi-weapons is a must have for this army.

Now that's a blistering amount of firepower! First: One of your noisemarine squads has 8 men, 8 sonic blasters, and a blastmaster. Get 5 points back and fix that mistake.

For me, I think I'd stick with the two support noisemarine squads, and the two rhino squads, but I'd drop those in-between guys to beef up the rhino squads to full members, and then buy a specialist squad like those raptors you had or like wuestenfux said, a squad of terminators.

You may also consider wings on the daemon princes. If they're not going to be winged, you may just consider using a sorceror that joins a unit and hides there. The only real downside to that is that he'd have to use Lash of Submission on whatever his squad shoots at.

A Daemon Prince is hard to hide these days (= 5th ed). He can be seen behind a Rhino as its no longer a height 3 transport and thus can be targeted. So the positioning of the DPs is crucial.

So how should equip the terminators and how many should I get?

You could always shoot at DP's behind Rhinos. Shame on you. Er nm German rules...I don't know them so well.

Termies can be fluffy, or be the good ones. Khorne w/Combi-weapons. They are...killy when they arrive, and even just 2 or 3 really hurts if they get into CC.

I think the Rhinos are worthless. EC are a shooty torrent of fire army...don't go mounted with EC.

I agree with Burning Star IV: If you dump the Obliterators in favour of Predators, you'll have much harder hitting and survivable models.

Tool them up with:

Twin-Linked Lascannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Daemonic Possession

They come to 155pts apiece, and you can pay for the 15pt difference in total by ditching a Noise Marine from the 9 Marine squad.

Incidentally, now that I look at the 8-man Noise Marine squad in your second list, you seem to have mis-costed them - or they're supposed to be 9-men strong.

If you reduce both squads down to 8 men each then you can soup up the Predators with Havoc Launchers to complement the Heavy Bolters and the Lash of Submission.

DJ66 wrote:

Burning Star IV wrote:-Obliterators are your worst choice for anti-tank. for 450 points (or thereabouts, free up some points from the Raptors), you could get 3 Las predators. That's 3 extra TLed lascannons over your Obliterators, and a great deal more survivability.

With those changes, you should be able to deal with tanks. (And I don't know what you're saying.... against horde armies, you're set! Look at all those Sonic Blasters!)

I have to disagree with this statement. Oblits are the BEST anti-tank unit Chaos has to offer. People will try and convince you that Predators are the new hotness in 5e because they can get cover saves too. What they fail to mention is that Predators can be stunned, shaken, and/or destroyed by one lucky shot. This does not happen to Oblits. A pair of Oblits is FAR and AWAY more survivable than a Pred. Even if you spring for Possesion, you reduce the core competency of the Pred by lowering its BS (which btw applies for Vindi's too with the new blast rules) by 16%. Not to mention that 2 Oblits are TWO lascannons, which is always better than a TL weapon. Are three extra TL BS 3 Lascannons worth the REDUCTION in survivability and at an additional cost in points? I for one think not.

But as to your list: I would add an additional Lash HQ rather than the Nurgle one. Or, if that's not your style at least give him the MoTz to get a better Invul save. I personally like that more than an additional T. Also allows for multiple Psychic powers. Warptime & Wind is a good combo. Warptime also works in assault.

That raptor unit is a huge point sink. As are the NM fully kitted out like that. Your squads seem to favor the 'jack of all trades, masters of none' mentaility. I'd recommend committing each squad to a single purpose. You could have 3 minimum size NM squads with Blast masters, 2 big squads with Sonic Blasters, and one with Champion, Doomsiren and Sonic Blasters for counter charge / assault. Find a specific niche for the Raptors, and kit them for that.

I really don't like Obliterators. The only thing they have over a Predator is a PC, but they are hardly worth buying just for that. 2 Obliterators give you 2 lascannons, for about the same price as 3 lascannons on a predator. The list is in need of more AT power--Noise Marines are perfectly capable of dealing with infantry on their own. The problem with obliterators as opposed to predators is that, while unable to be shaken or stunned, are incredibly easy to instantly kill. A single lascannon blast can obliterate (no pun intended) a single 75-point model easier than it could simply shake a pred. Daemonic Posession, while I don't always use it, gives the Obliterator absolutely no advantages over the Predator (save BS). Also, I have never seen a Predator taken down by bolter fire--I have seen the equivalent of 2 Terminators welded together get mowed down by bolter fire.

@ Cadian 16th: I do play chaos, but I'm selling them for GK because they were too boring for me.

Oblits < Pred.

I don't think so.

Oblits get a 4+ cover save, pretty much...always.
(Chaos is a infantry heavy army.)

Preds get a - cover save, pretty much...always.
(Chaos isn't a vehicle heavy army.)

Oblits are not a priority target when you are running a infantry heavy army, the troops and demon princes are.

Oblits are a target priority when you are running a vehicle heavy army, but most vehicles die to oblits before they die to the vehicles.

DP's however must die first if you run a vehicle heavy army, because DP + vehicle = dead...and in the first turn it takes you (or two, usually) to drop the DP's...the oblits have combined with the chaos troops to cut up your light vehicles, and now it's your 3 LR versus their 9 oblits.

You lose that fight, every time.

I don't think it's a question of whether Obliterators are categorically better than Predators or the other way around. It depends, naturally, on whether conditions favour their advantages, and part of those conditions are what else is in your army and what your strategy is for both capturing objectives and killing the enemy.

If you need something to hang around your backfield and support your attack, then the Predator, the Land Raider, Defilers and Havocs do it better.

If you need something to advance up the board to support an attack on an objective, then Vindicators, Predators, Havocs, Land Raiders, and Defilers do it better.

I think that Obliterators are pretty good if you take a single unit, and at least one other Heavy Support choice that does a Deep Strike onto an Icon, preferably in heavy terrain and accompanied by a unit of Summoned Daemons. Here why:

Most obviously it's a question of protecting what are actually pretty fragile units. Now that they have to use their Power Fists, Power Weapons and Rending assault troops will have a field day with them, although that was already happening in my area because they still only have I4. Heck, roll enough dice and Orks can chop them to bits before they kill a single Ork.

Basically they're vulnerable to low strength weapons like Bolters and Lasguns, that the tanks aren't, don't carry the firepower that Havocs can, and are matched by tanks, and thanks to T4 can be Instant Killed by anti-tank weapons. Plasma eats them alive.

Of course, if you have other Heavy Support starting on the board, and you have an Icon to drop on so you can place them somewhere where they can catch the side or rear armour of vehicles, or use their Flamerthrowers on infantry, and back them up with a bunch of cover-providing I4-fighting Lesser Summoned Daemons, then they can be placed to apply their firepower to its greatest advantage, and survive.

Otherwise, they'll lose an artillery duel with the opposing Heavy Support, get beaten to a pulp by enemy assault troops, or show up to late to support your force (when you buy two or three units).

Someday, someone will explain to me how you are getting bolters on oblits.

Did tactical squads just grow wings?

There should be Chaos troops between you and them.

Or we running our tact squads past noise marines?

Okay after some some thinking I've altered the list to this.


Deamon Prince Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission 135
Deamon Prince Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission 135

5xTerminators, 3xCombi-Meltas, 2xCombi-Flamers, Chainfist, Icon of Khorn 220

5x Noise Marines, Blastmaster 140
5x Noise Marines, Blastmaster 140

5x Noise Marines, Blastmaster, 4xSonic Blasters 160

10xNoise Marines Champion with Power Weapon & Doom Siren, 9xSonic Blasters 310
10xNoise Marines Champion with Power Weapon & Doom Siren, 9xSonic Blasters 310

2xObliterators 150
2xObliterators 150
2xObliterators 150
2000

Also what should I take out for at 1500pts game?

you really need wings on your demon princes. its makes them very very scary.

other than that its pretty good.

in 1500pts id drop the terminators, one of the 140pt NM squads and reduce the 2 10 man squads to 7 each.

on the subject of oblits.

often in the games i play my oblits kill about 40% of the stuff i kill overall. if you want to take preds thats fine. just dont be a sore loser when the guy with oblits and winged demon princes ruins your day.

mate, mate, mate cut back on the DP mna there not always the way to go, there usually the first to die, now you should replace them with a lord and sorceror, y because they can be transported DP's cant a lord and sorceror can hide in a squad easier and a sorceror can have more powers look up the CSM codex for details, if you do play chaos that is, and wats with all the noise marines, hey i dont think that they suck, far from it but to many equal to expensive, you need some normal marines and berzerkers for a frontline and another thing, transport, aka rhino's, i know that they aint the best transport but they are cheap and can be very useful eg blocking enemy fire and they can kill people, there not just a big slab of metal, and the last thing is the oblidz ther good but you only really need 2 of them, 2 will still kick ass you could use the points you save on replacing the noise marines and oblid for something to really show the enemy that you are chaos, and you won't go down easy, try some thousand sons, with the aspiring sorceror with warptime will really give you some good fire power. thats all from me.

BloodDeathAssault

BloodDeathAssault wrote:You could use the points you save on replacing the noise marines and oblid for something to really show the enemy that you are chaos, and you won't go down easy, try some thousand sons, with the aspiring sorceror with warptime will really give you some good fire power.

Aside from the rest of your awful advice, did you not notice that the OP wants an "Emperor's Children" Chaos army? EC's don't have Thousand Sons. Not to mention that the Sonic Blaster noise marines put out more firepower at range, and the Thousand Son's 4+ inv is less important in 5th ed with the abundance of cover saves.