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Did anyone else notice how gentle treatment Hammerheads are getting from the 5th ed vehicle rules? With all the proper vehicle upgrades, they can:

1. Move 12" and fire the Railgun.
2. Railgun submunitions never completely miss, as the template only scatters a bit.
3. Never crash with immobilised results, as the skimmer is incapable of 'flat out' speed.
4. Always count as obscured and benefit from a 4+ cover save, whether the tank moves or not and whether it is in cover or not.
5. Benefit from all other skimmer traits for example being able to dodge ramming attempts.

Basically, it seems that Hammerheads are getting all the fast skimmer advantages and none of the disadvantages. Sure the Burst Cannons can only fire if the Hammerhead moves 6" or less, but that's not a big deal and that's a change everyone has to deal with. For example, Predators are not as mobile fire platforms as they used to be and have to get 50% of the firing sector in cover to benefit from a cover save, and Falcons can't shoot at all if they want a cover save and then they get wrecked with immobilised results. Hammerheads share none of these concerns.

Am I missing something?

Deepstrike/Drop Pod a Meltagun within 12" of the tank and fire away and it becomes hot slag with no Cover save. It also can't easily run away from Fast infiltrators and/or Fast assault units with Fists who will hit it on a 4+ and will be going against AV10.

It's certainly one of the best tanks in the game right now, especially in terms of being a cost effective gun boat, but it's still easy to kill if your opponent brings the right tools to do the job.

And for anyone whose played 5th long enough, they already know to get fast moving Meltaguns in on things to really take down the Tanks.

EDIT: You're 100% right on everything, but most of it applies from taking long range fire. Playing the range game generally means using the corners of the table which means infiltrators can get to you, likewise the deepstrike/fast unit with Melta weapons just has to get within 12" and then you're not getting a Cover Save and are probably going to get slagged.

5 point cover save and front armor 13. It's very good.

Meltas will kill it, as will massed fire on the side armor, but it's easy to protect the flanks with infantry/terrain. Plus, with the huge range on the rail gun, and open boards, there's no reason to put the tank in danger by putting it where it can be assaulted.

A good Tau player will make you work hard to take down the Hammerheads.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Deepstrike/Drop Pod a Meltagun within 12" of the tank and fire away and it becomes hot slag with no Cover save. It also can't easily run away from Fast infiltrators and/or Fast assault units with Fists who will hit it on a 4+ and will be going against AV10.

It's certainly one of the best tanks in the game right now, especially in terms of being a cost effective gun boat, but it's still easy to kill if your opponent brings the right tools to do the job.

And for anyone whose played 5th long enough, they already know to get fast moving Meltaguns in on things to really take down the Tanks.

EDIT: You're 100% right on everything, but most of it applies from taking long range fire. Playing the range game generally means using the corners of the table which means infiltrators can get to you, likewise the deepstrike/fast unit with Melta weapons just has to get within 12" and then you're not getting a Cover Save and are probably going to get slagged.

Your right, but everything you typed before the Edit mark applies to all tanks now. Vehicles without a WS are going to be evaporating like wet tissue paper to HTH attacks now, no matter what vehicle it is. Flanking melta guns work just as good against your preditors as they do against Hammerheads. But like the OP said, with the right vehicle upgrades the hammerhead does very well in situations where any other tank is going to be only half as effective.

Vehicles don't die if they move 12". Very hard to hit in CC. Hammerheads don't need to stand still. Leman Russes do. So I'd disagree with you about it not mattering what vehicle it is. Skimmers still have an advantage against CC attacks.

Meltaguns kill everything but Monoliths, but then...that's not really new. I've run alot of the meltas before 5E came out, now everyone else is going to be doing it too. Getting close to Hammerheads is the trick. Putting Devilfish in the way is a great way. You don't really want to run into the middle of a horde of fish. I have, it hurts. lol

Agreed with Stelek -- Melta weapons are your best friend, especially if you're army can't field a lot of Lascannons or the like.

You make a good point, Stelek, regarding the use of DF to restrict LOS from enemy models. I'll have to remind my brother of that as he begins making investments in protecting his soft Fire Warriors.

CK

Well, it isn't so much as blocking LOS as it is giving squads with Meltaguns something to worry about with a Fish full of FW in between it and 30" to the Hammerhead.

No one survives that trip, ya know.

Well I'd assume that even with Run, it's going to be hard to get a Melta Gun shot off with a ground based squad that doesn't have Jetpacks, bikes, etc.

Certainly if that is your delivery method, then the Tau can deal with that through mass firepower and mobility, which are their strengths.

I was just thinking in terms of deepstriking Meltas, which really only come from Loyalist Marines and IG, though Chaos can pull some shenanigans there too.

And while it's true you can use 'Fish to block for Hammerhead, a Tau force taking lots of Fish means you're not going to have a lot else on the table, which kind of sucks for when you need those troops to score.

Still, Therion is right in that a Hammerhead has a great deal more advantages over most other tanks in 5th (bar the Monolith). Also with the new template rules, it's one of those truly good multi-tasker tanks.

Russes don't need to stand still, since they can move and fire ordanace and most IG players will be taking other tanks to provide cover. But that is another thread.

The Hammerhead did make good in the new edition.

But I agree with Voodoo Boyz, their primary weakness will be meltaguns that have a capability to get up close. Attack Bikes and Land Speeders can do it, but risk initial Tau firepower. Drop IG Veterans, Fire Dragons in Falcons, and most SM units in Drop Pods can do it successfully.

But it will be rarer than one thinks because it is a risk/reward arguement, is it worth overextending any one unit just to get at one of multiple Hammerheads?

If they sit back and fire most of the game (their strength) in alot of missions they can't get forward to contest because they are slow (their weakness).

The Demolisher Russ or a chassis with multiple sponsons that suffered a Weapon Destroyed on the battlecannon are the only ones that really need to be stationary. Regular ordnance-lobbing russes can move forward 6" screened by hellhounds or chimeras for the cover save, and do the 12" sprint to contest objectives if absolutely necessary.

Stelek wrote:Well, it isn't so much as blocking LOS as it is giving squads with Meltaguns something to worry about with a Fish full of FW in between it and 30" to the Hammerhead.

No one survives that trip, ya know.

Especially if that trip starts with your opponents throwing down enough markerlight shots to light up said squad like a Christmas Tree.

Looks like my Multi-Melta Attack Bikes are back with a job they can do well at.

CK