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I have played 2 games of 40k now, both with 1000 pts nidzilla.
I am using 2 hive tyrants, 2 gunfexes, a dakka fex and 3 small units of gaunts without number.
The gunfexes are my main destroyers. But i feel that the venom cannons dont do justice for there 30 pts.
Ok they are s10 so they would kill a single Meq, but it cant destroy a tank. Only immobilise it at best.
The barbed strangler can destroy tanks pretty good. as it can penetrate. I also foudn that the chance to hit with a barbed strangler is also better then with a vc. because if you dont roll a hit you can still scatter a few inches and it will still hit full power.
The only disadvantage of bs are that they cant penetrate Land raiders and such. but thats okay, i can wreck those with my flyrant.

That said, i think it would be better to spend the 30 pts for a venom cannon for something else.

What do you people think?

a number of players are swapping their carnies' venom cannons for TL Desthspitters - certainly gives a nice anti-personnel beasty.

Me, I'm just making sure i use magnets to attach all my carny arms so that I can change my mind later

You have a 50% chance with a VC of making a tank not fire. Every time you get equal or better versus the targets armor.
No one else has this ability.

Tanks are very dangerous for Nids, often for 2 or 3 turns. Negating them every turn until you can CC them, is just the way the Nid army runs.

You will never get a lascannon in a Nid army. This is, thankfully, a good design decision.

Don't expect a lascannon. Expect a venom cannon.

I wish I could put 6 S10 shots with a 42" range on any other army, even if all they could do is glance--because I would.

So, is a VC worth the price of 3 hormagaunts? Making a tank worthless for a turn?

Also note that on a 5-6 you score a weapon or immobile result, thereby netting you half VPs for the tank if the game ends in tactical draw.

Enough weapon destroyed and immobilized results will result in a vehicle destroyed result.

Moz wrote:Also note that on a 5-6 you score a weapon or immobile result, thereby netting you half VPs for the tank if the game ends in tactical draw.

Only if the VP optinal rule is in use. As far as Kill Points go you'd have to destroy the model to gain any.

Use Zoanthropes, you will be going towards the enemy anyway right. As Warp Blast is assault unlike most lascannon equivalents the 24" range is less of a handicap than it looks.

Nids have time delayed anti tank, not no anti tank.

You either need to get within 24" for Warp Blast, or close combat for rending or flyrant attacks.

Gunfexes are great because they are cost effective and because Zoanthropes are 0-1, however they are not truly essential. IMHO the barbed strangler is the better part of the monster.

Orlanth wrote:Use Zoanthropes, you will be going towards the enemy anyway right. As Warp Blast is assault unlike most lascannon equivalents the 24" range is less of a handicap than it looks.

Nids have time delayed anti tank, not no anti tank.

You either need to get within 24" for Warp Blast, or close combat for rending or flyrant attacks.

Gunfexes are great because they are cost effective and because Zoanthropes are 0-1, however they are not truly essential. IMHO the barbed strangler is the better part of the monster.

The effective anti-armor shot on a Zoanthrope is 18" range actually... but very good points all around otherwise!

Well my current 1k list is 2 gunfexes and 1 dakkafex. So at 1500 pts i could throw in some zoeys, instead of another gunfex.

Im glad to hear Barbed Stranglers are good - since I just modeled my Carnies with them

Magnetize the Carnies...

Venom cannons are really really bad tank killers. It takes 45 BS3 venom cannon shots (on average) to kill an AV13 tank however, it only takes 3 (on average) to damage the tank and keep it from doing anything the next turn. So you have to rethink the role of your units a bit for this edition. If you are going to try and kill tanks from extream range, you simply don't have much in the way of options (strangler being about the only thing that can do it). What you can do is shut tanks down from extream range till other units can carve them up in hand to hand. That or you can go the dakka fex route and destroy them from short/medium range.

If you are interested in going the troop killing route, I've been interested in the effectiveness of the strangler/death spitter fex. 2 templates a turn should cause a good amount of death.

Venom cannon can go up to ST 10 right? Can carnies up grade their BS as well? I am not too familiar with nidz but I do know they can mutate.

They can get Max BS3

Carnies max BS is 3. Venom cannons are str 10 on any Carnifex but they can only glance a vehicle unless it is open-topped.

Dakkafex's (TwL Devourer) max str is 6, so that doesn't work on anything AV 13 or higher.

Blowing a tank up is nice, but taking out the main gun or immobilising it is almost as useful in most games. VC aren’t there to earn their points back, they’re there to stun and damage tanks, protecting your key units and allowing them to reach the enemy in decent numbers.

I think it is still viable at buying time. That is all you need it for.

The VC is nice for immobilising a Tank. Which then allows your other units to tear it apart in HtH.
Granted, as stated above, VC is not a first turn anti-tank weapon. However, it can supress a tank long enough to be destroyed via HtH. Not always the greatest tactic, but may come in handy at times.
Over all best weapon for a Fex has to be the Barbed Stangler IMO. For it is a great anti-troop weapon and fair against some Tanks.
Great weapon against Eldar, Tau, and Orks! Kills those shooty units before they can shoot apart my Tyranid troops.

What about the Ninjafex or Godfex to kill tanks after VC shots?

Sadetta131 wrote:What about the Ninjafex or Godfex to kill tanks after VC shots?

What exactly do you mean, what about them?

They are very good at ripping a tank to shreds. Ninjafex: S9, 5 attacks on the charge hitting AV10 usually, AV14 on the Land Raider or Monolith. On normal tanks, that's 9+2d6 (only 9+d6 on those blasted 'liths), so you're pretty much guaranteed 5 penetrating hits and a single 5+ outright destroys the tank.

Kirbinator wrote: so you're pretty much guaranteed 5 penetrating hits and a single 5+ outright destroys the tank.

Well you have to hit the damn thing first. Unless pillbox tanks are becoming the vogue. No complaints here

orchewer wrote:

Kirbinator wrote: so you're pretty much guaranteed 5 penetrating hits and a single 5+ outright destroys the tank.

Well you have to hit the damn thing first. Unless pillbox tanks are becoming the vogue. No complaints here

Well if you want to fire more than 1 weapon above str 4 you cant move the tank. I can see many pillbox tanks just sitting in cover and only moving when they need to.

Niblet there nailed it for me. You think that Heavy Bolter equipped Russ is going to move? Maybe if it feels it can't take out that Carnifex before it gets to the tank. Besides, rolling to hit a moving tank isn't any better or worse than rolling to hit with a Venom Cannon... unless you're aiming at a skimmer. But why would a skimmer let a monsterfex get that close?

Rather than being your main AT and one of your best units, VC equipped 'fex are now a support unit. They're your best means of stunning enemy tanks and stopping them from chewing up your troops in the first couple of turns, but after that their use is limited.

To actually kill tanks the best options now are probably your flyrant and melee fex, with zoanthropes also a useful option. Whether or not you want to spend the 150 odd points on 'fex just to stop a crusader for a couple of turns is pretty debatable.