Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What is the optimum squad size, if any? Also, would you want to mix sonic blasters with a blastmaster, or not?

I was thinking of running a could of 6 man squads (Sacred number and all) with bolters and a single blastmaster, and then a 12 man squad with all sonic blasters. (Sacred number again) Would it be better to just take all 6 man squads, or not have any regular bolters at all? I was thinking its a bad trade-off to be shooting the blastmaster at something the sonic blasters can't hurt.

I would take 6 with all Sonic Blasters, or else I would take the same + a champ.

I don't think I would take a Blastmaster because you lose the mobility. That, and 40 + 25? pts is pretty pricey. You are better off with an Obliterator or something else I think.

I'd take 0, but I'm biased. Squads of 6 work alright. It depends what their role in the army is.

Pure fire support?

6 Noise Marines of 6 w/ Blastmaster + 5 SBs = 185 pts

vs

6 Havocs w/ 4 HBs = 150 pts

25 pts for marine with a slightly better stormbolter, fearless and I5 doesn't sound worth it at all to me.
Same with the 40 pt blast master.

One scores, one doesn't?

One can move and fire with reduced effectiveness, one can't fire at all?

Other things come into play too of course, better str and ap of HBs and whatnot. But it's not quite as cut and dry as the points would indicate.

However I didn't realize that 6 havocs with 4 hbs was so cheap! I may replace my defiler with one hehe

I've run squads of 10 w/ sonic blasters and they're extremely effective. Give the champ a powerfist too.

I don't like mixing blastmasters w/ sonic squads, because, as mentioned above, you want to have the option to move & fire your sonic blasters, while you need to have the blastmaster sitting still to make its points back. So, I'll take a unit of 5 or 6 w/ blastmaster and just hang-back firing with that unit while the sonic blaster teams move to where the mission needs them.

Thanks for the comments everyone. Redbeard, that's pretty much what I was thinking.

Also, comparing them to havocs is not relevant because the havocs share slots with obliterators. I also think the ability to move and fire with the sonic blasters is a huge advantage on I5 troops.

In 4th, my two troop choices (yes, just 2) were 8 man squads of NM's with all SB's. No champ, not BM. 200 points of shooty death. They're very effective. I know, they're not sacred numbers, but I always thought 6man squads were too fragile. At least last codex there was some in game incentive to run them 6 strong. I just cant justify it now.

You can run them in so many different configurations.

Without knowing what the rest of your army is going to look like, how can we tell you what the optimum squad size is?

Or even their payload? Very uninformed information being given here, it's a shame really.

Tell us what else you are running, then we can see how best to help you, ok?

I run a very expensive version. 8-man strong with champ. 7 sonic blasters, 1 blastmaster, 1 champ with pfist and doom siren and sometimes a Rhino for good measure.

This squad lays down a devastating amount of fire. I've found that in 5th edition the Blastmaster is much better due to the new blast rules. My squad generally takes a huge amount of incoming fire. Once it is whittled down to only a few models I stop shooting and go mobile for either capture or hunting missions. All of this is still highly experimental as I've played less than a dozen games with this layout. Once I have enough data on their performance I will most likely alter them to make them more efficient.

@Stelek

I plan on starting the list small. I'm going to have a lash demon prince, about 18 noise marines hopefully split into either 12 and 6, or all sixers, 2 obliterators, and a unit of 6 terminators.

If you aren't sure what to do with the squad, I think a blastmaster is a reasonable buy. That way if you want/need to stay still, BOOM. If you need to move, then you can still get a couple shots.

However if the unit WILL be moving, and that's what you want to do with it, the blastmaster is a bit of a waste. 40 points for a good weapon moving or not is nice, 40 points for a mobile 2-shot heavy bolter that pins is not.

Know what I hate, though? Not having enough sonic blasters to fill out a squad. Due to wound allocation, the other day I had a 10-man squad with 7 guys with sonic blasters, champion, and 2 basic marines. No plasma weapons were shot at the unit, and the two basic guys kept making all their saves while the sonic blasters all got shot out from under the unit. Even the champion bit the dust before the final basic guy did. It was pretty annoying.

whitedragon wrote:@Stelek

I plan on starting the list small. I'm going to have a lash demon prince, about 18 noise marines hopefully split into either 12 and 6, or all sixers, 2 obliterators, and a unit of 6 terminators.

So will the termies be combi droppers, or just extra shooty?

I think everyone knows most NM lists (with Lash) are all about control and putting so many shots down range you can't save them all.

The blastmaster is a mixed bag, but in the end I think it's worth taking one. It makes your army more balanced, which is key for 5E.

I know I take the BM over a unit champ pretty much every time.

You really should focus on taking obliterators to the max if you want to make a dual lash list.

Without them being maxed out, you will have serious issues with many lists.

FWIW, I gave my friend a list and he's getting better at running it. It has 2xlash prince, 3x3 oblits, and 3x9 nm with 7 SB and 1 BM.

Spellbound wrote:Know what I hate, though? Not having enough sonic blasters to fill out a squad. Due to wound allocation, the other day I had a 10-man squad with 7 guys with sonic blasters, champion, and 2 basic marines. No plasma weapons were shot at the unit, and the two basic guys kept making all their saves while the sonic blasters all got shot out from under the unit. Even the champion bit the dust before the final basic guy did. It was pretty annoying.

Well, it can happen, but the basic guy is actually a bonus.

I hope you know why.

I don't know about the termies. I was thinking of running them with Combi-plasma and a heavy flamer.

I'm not really interested in maxing out 9 oblits. I think at best I'll have two squads of 2 oblits, and a lash prince and a lash sorcerer. I also want to have a couple squads of "daemonettes" (Lesser Demons) just because I think they look cool. I'm going for the whole "Old School Emp's Children" in a new school codex.

@whitedragon, if you are taking 4 oblits the definitely load up on blastmasters. The combo of lash plus template is the bread and butter of the list.

I'm making a thread in the army list forum.