Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I bought into the Terminator Annihilation Force thing, bringing my total terminator count to 30 [or 32?] for my army. I'm chomping at the bit to use them in apocalypse, with granted a bit of a desire to bring 30 terminators to a regular game sometime, too!

But where I'm stuck is the best optimization of the equipment loadout. One of my original plans was to give the combi-weapon models no other upgrades so that once they'd fired, they could be ablative wounds for the rest of the unit, as even the un-upgraded models would be better shooters then [twin-linked bolters as opposed to regular].

But I figured then if I stack things like powerfists on those models, I could then use normal basic models as ablative if I need the powerfists for something, or go ahead and let the now normal bolter+powerfist models bite it if I'm going to get more use out of the power weapons.

Anyway the squad is...

10 terminators, Icon of Slaanesh, heavy flamer, heavy flamer w/ powerfist, 2 combi-flamers, chainfist, powerfist.

Those last two options, should they be on the combi-flamers or no? How would you set them up?

Just a warning, ablative wounds are a lot less effective in 5th due to the wound allocation rules. Two heavy flamers and two combi flamers will toast most things you put in it's way though!

That was the flip-side of the issue. Having a ton of models, all with different equipment could be beneficial if I needed to allocate wounds, because rolling snake eyes for a model that's been allocated two wounds means only one model dies, whilst if I had like 5 basic troopers, 2 would die when I rolled them all together.

And on the other hand fewer basics, more guys with different weapon options means I may lose them, before I'd want to ><. So hard!

It all depends on what role you have in mind for your termies.

Long range= reaper and combi bolters
close range anti tank= combi melta
close range anti MEQ= combi plasma
close range anti horde= heavy flamers

You get the picture.

I run a unit of 10.

Icon of Glory + Flamer
2 Autocannons, 2 Chainfists
2 Combi Melta
5 Combi Plasma
430

I try to burn through my plasma as fast as I can depending on the situation they then become my 5 ablative wounds. I have been running this squad since last October, with the new rules they are even better. They are contesting to the last man, they have a lot of fire power and I find people don't bother trying to kill them because they know they will not be able to kill them all and they will contest if they are 1 strong or 10. I seldom deep strike them, for the amount of points they cost me they need to be on the board from turn 1 killing their points back and they usually do.

The reason I only take 1 flamer is because with that many bolter/autocannon shots lets say a unit of pathfinders is dug into a 2+ save. 1 flamer should kill a few and the amount of shots I pump into them should kill the other ones. I see the value of a flamer but unless my termies are deepstriking they need long range fire power.

I may make a couple plasmaguns, but I'm nervous that they'll be removed in the next codex or something.

Plus I've had really good luck with deepstrike and flamers lately.

Thanks for the help, all!

i have been having the same problem. i want to take a 6 man squad with my termie chaos lord. i want to deep strike them with my PM's in rhino as a support (both with icons!) and with a squad or two on plague bearers. all up one flank but by trying to be very 'fluffy' ad a death guard player (no havocs, bikes, tanks etc) im lacking in anti tank killing power. i have thought abou fitting them withchainfists/combi meltas etc but surely any tank commander is just gonna drive away....right?
what do you all think?

phill

i have been toying with the idea of making a chaos army with four squads of termies all with a different mark of chaos, but i was going back and forth on weapons for them too.

what is the general consensus on Mok? what is a good ratio of fists to power weapons? It wold seem these guys would be better with less guns and fists and to focus on CC and run them.

i also thought about a (relatively) cheapy slanesh squad with nearly all power weapons for the In bonus and maybe just a heavy flamer to fire before charging. has anyone tried that?

then for MoN and MoT, due to their increased saves, i figured it would be best to load them up with combi weapons and reapers and walk them forward. good idea or bad? It also seems best to give them a higher ratio of fists also because they are more survivable. I have never played chaos, but the new forge world kits are really tempting me.

Reecius:

I may be wrong, but I think that a Chaos Space Marine army can only field three units of Terminators, one for each Elite slot.

With the Mark of Khorne I think you'd do better to go with Lightening Claws, Chainfists, Combi-Weapons, and a Heavy Flamethrower.

A squad of five, giving three Terminators Lightening Claws, and two Terminator Champions with Chainfists, would have twelve Power Weapon attacks (with re-rolls to wound) on the charge, and eight Power Fist attacks (with bonus penetration dice against vehicles).

Regarding Flamethrowers: I think they're a good idea for spraying and praying (spraying and screaming oaths to the Dark Gods) if you Deep Strike the Terminators on an Icon, but not so good if you are able to follow up with an assault.

They're great with an Icon because there's no danger of scatter, and you can place the squad exactly where they need to be to do maximum damage with the templates. I've used this tactic with great succes to discourage local Ork players from taking Lootas ("Fool me one to five times, fool on me, fool me six times or more, fool on me.").

They're also great weapons for a Deep Strike for the same reason they're not so great for a squad assaulting on foot: a smart player will remove the casualties closest to you (where possible) and attempt to lengthen the charge distance beyond the reach of the Terminators.

So if you're planning on a Deep Strike, followed up by a charge next turn, then leave the Heavy Flamethrower at home and take Combi-Flamethrowers and use them on the turn you Deep Strike. That way you can get the effect of the Template weapon/accurate Deep Strike without the effect of the Template weapon/charge.

For Slaaneshi Terminators I suggest leaving the Power Fist type weapons at home, and loading up with Combi-Weapons with Melta attachments for your anti-tank work.

The Tzeentchian and Nurglitch Terminators may be harder to wound and penetrate than their co-religionists, but that's only if you don't consider the safety margin gained from killing your opponents before they kill you: something that Khornate and Slaaneshi Terminators excel at in close combat, and the rest of the army does better than Terminators in ranged combat. Even considered though, if you're going to be out-gunned (such as when maximizing the proportion of Terminators in your army), fighting an I5+ enemy, or not really planning on using your Terminators in close-combat, then the Nurglitch and Tzeentchian Icons pay for themselves.

Any way you run Terminators, though, I recommend either Deep Strike or Land Raider: Terminators walking around are just expensive targets. Only the Reaper Autocannon has the range for a foot-slogging unit, since they're slow, and it really doesn't have the firepower to do anything more than pick off light vehicles (which can be handy if you aren't toting many autocannons elsewhere in your force).

thanks, Nurglitch, you make some good points.

i believe you can take three elite termie squads and then one (maybe two?) retinue for a termie lord, which is what i was planning, but i could be wrong as i dont have access to the codex anymore.

i hate chaos on principles sake, but the new forgeworld kits are so sexy i was really tempted to make a maxed out termie army, as i figured by the time i get home, they will have donw Tzentch and and Slanesh as well.

i was thinking 4 units of 10 in a 2K army with a lord or sorceror in termie armor. it wouldnt be a tourny list, but i think it would be good fun to paint up all of the termies in the colors of their god. it would be a chance to paint in colors i dont normally use either and the small model count would mean i could go to town on each guy.

that said, im competitive as hell and i want at least a chance of winning with anything i put on the board, even in a just for fun game.

i agree, though, LC's on the MoK guys makes sense with a few fists thrown in their for insurance, and Slanesh with power weapons (or LC's there too) is a smart choice. I was thinking in this type of themed list, it would be good to have two of the units geared up a little more for shooting, which would be MoT and MoN due to their increased resilience.

Reecius:

I've checked, there is no option of retinues for Chaos Lords or Sorcerers.

I'd suggest a tripartite list: One unit of each, leaving the Nurgle followers at home.

A Chaos Lord of Khorne with Terminator Armour and a Bloodfeeder (bundled with Khorne-affiliated Terminators it'll make fumbles less painful when they occur, and the murderous frenzy much more intimidating to your opponents: wipe out full units of Orks in single turns...).

A Chaos Sorcerer with Terminator Armour, Familiar, Winds of Chaos, and Warptime. The Warptime will be murderous in combination with Wind of Chaos, and the Wind can be summoned even when mixing it up in combat.

The third contingent of Slaaneshi Terminators in a Land Raider plow into the middle of the enemy, and act as the locus of a pin-point Deep Strike.

Not sure what else you want in your army. I'd suggest Lesser Daemons, just to get that cover save, and to pin units in combat while your Terminators clean up so you don't have to rely on their saves to keep enemies off them after they polish of units in close combat.

Maybe the Nurgle contingent can be some Plague Marines in Land Raiders? Three Land Raiders will be fun, and give you that anti-tank firepower.

i swear i saw this topic a couple of weeks ago. ah well. its late so i admit i didnt read all the threads.

just like almost all the other descisions you will take when playing 40K, equiping terminators depends on what you want them to do.

the standard base i use for all my terminators:

for fire support terminators

20% powerfists
80% combi-weapons (usually plasmas)
Reaper Autocannon
IoT or IoN

for deepstriking terminators

40% powerfists
60% combi-weapons (usually flamers or meltas)
Heavy Flamer
IoT or IoN

for combat terminators

60% powerfists
40% combi-weapons (any sort)
Heavy Flamer
IoK, IoN, IoT

remember you only need to get one terminator into combat before counter charge moves everything else into combat.

Im not the biggest fan of lighting claws. shooting and powerfists are better, even for combat orientated terminators. if you want to take LCs, then IoS gets better. i wouldnt use it otherwise. Icon-wise, Tzneetch is probably the best againt 4th armies, but with the increase in cover saves in 5th, it becomes virtually redundant, unless you plan on assaulting other terminators or MCs. with nurgle your terminators will survive better again their true bane, massed small arms fire. Khorne is good for the extra attacks in combat, obviously.

i think bigger terminator squads perform better than smaller ones, especially when you take expensive icons into account. i dont like to run mine below 8 men but thats more down to taste. a 10 man DS squad with 6 flamers and 2 heavy flamers will toast and infantry they land near. terminator champs arent really worth it. if you have points to burn after youve finished with your army, then by all means include them in a combat squad, otherwise there is no point.

dont mix and match the terminators in an army. have them all do one thing rather than several. it will make them more effective in the long run. thats more army building advice, but still something to pay attention to.

thanks to both of you guys,

yeah, that stinks, i thought you could take a retinue. Oh well, it would have looked really nice visually to have one squad of each god on the table.

I agree though that all squads need to be optimized to fulfill a single role well. That goes for pretty much any army really, those ratios help a lot though, i appreciate that.

Well, that does take some of the wind out of my sails, but perhaps i can make an apoc army with one squad of terminators from each god and one squad of cult marines from each god as well, that would be pretty fun.

and nurglitch, i agree, the terminator lord and sorcerers are a must, even though they arent the best choice points efficiency wise, the models are just so good!