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This is my list that I will be using for the Ard Boys tournment around my area. Its 2500 points of Mixed Mech Eldar list. It is worked for 5th edition and takes full advantage of movement and objective control with 4 wave serpeants. Two as tank hunters and two as anti horde shooters. I have considered all the extremly hard lists out there, like 7 land raider lists, and i think i have a good shot at taking out at least 2 land raiders a turn and shaking a few more. Against hords, I think the base of shooting elements as well as the mobile core of the arm flanks and counter assaults.

I have considered taking a unit of Scorpions in a wave serpent instead of one of the Dire Avenger Units. What do you think? Might not be a bad idea considering the hord orc list i will no doubt come up against. So there is the main question, what is better against hordes? Dire Avengers or scorpions?

I also dont know if the Warlock squad with farseer is worth the points though. It is extremly hard against specialized assault squads with 3+/4+ rerollable armour saves. And the Spears bouncing off wouldn't hurt either.

So let me know what you think or any improvments. I am trying to be very competative.

HQ

130
Autarch
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters

160
Farseer
Jetbike, Spirit Stone, Doom, Fortune

155
3 Warlocks
Jetbikes, Enhance, Embolden

ELITES

150
8 Howling Banshees
Exarch, Mirror Swords, Acrobat

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance

97
5 Fire Dragons
Exarch, Crack Shot

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance

TROOPS

140
9 Dire Avengers
Exarch, 2x Shurikens, Bladestorm

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone, TL Missle Launcher, Shuriken Cannon

140
9 Dire Avengers
Exarch, 2x Shurikens, Bladestorm

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone, TL Missle Launcher, Shuriken Cannon

85
10 Guardians
Shuriken Cannon

116
3 Jetbikes
Walock, Embolden

100
4 Rangers
1 Pathfinder

FAST ATTACK

187
4 Shining Spears
Exarch, Both Exarch Powers

HEAVY SUPPORT

130
2 War Walkers
Missle Launchers, Scatter Laser

140
Wraith Lord
Wraith Sword, Bright Lance

182
4 Dark Reapers
Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot


Soooo. Please Constructive critisim is welcome.

Eclipse024 wrote:
100
4 Rangers
1 Pathfinder

This unit is illegal. You have to upgrade all models in the squad to pathfinders or none.

One of anything is generally a bad idea. If you need it and it dies, you're stuffed. If you don't need it that much, why is it in your uber-competitive army?

Note, I'm not say you MUST take at least 2 of everything, but be aware if you only have one unit of a certain type, you need another unit that can do the same job(s).

With this in mind I'd rethink your wraithlord, guardians, jetbikes and rangers (when you make them legal).

My 1750 Eldar list would crush this list, it's that bad.

If you are going to bring the Eldar, and don't have two full seer councils on bikes...nobody is going to be afraid of you.

I know I'm not afraid of this. A single unit of almost everything out of the book? Are you being serious?

Chimera_Calvin wrote:One of anything is generally a bad idea. If you need it and it dies, you're stuffed. If you don't need it that much, why is it in your uber-competitive army?

Note, I'm not say you MUST take at least 2 of everything, but be aware if you only have one unit of a certain type, you need another unit that can do the same job(s).

With this in mind I'd rethink your wraithlord, guardians, jetbikes and rangers (when you make them legal).

What Chimera_Calvin says here is both very true and very wrong all at the same time. The advice about makeing sure you have multiple units that can fulfill various roles in your army is good advice. You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket as they say. Figure out what it is you need to do on the field and make sure you have a couple of different units that can do it. With that said, I don't think that your wraithlord, jetbikes, and rangers need rethinking or at least not removing. The guardians are a bit of a different story though. In either case, ask yourself the following questions for each unit: What is is this unit for? What is it good at? What is it bad at? Do I have another unit to counter its weakness? Do I have other units that fill the same role? Do I have a lot of other units that fill the same role? Could the points be better spent elsewhere?

In general I think that if you are going to run a seer council, you probably should run it as 5-6 guys at least to give them some weight. If you have to drop the bikes to do it, so be it. The other option would be to have them always with the shining spears so they end up working like one large squad (and you can use the seers to give cover saves to the spears). I think the guardian squad is a waste. You have scouts to hold back field objectives and dire avengers to try and get forward objectives so the guardians are just not doing much. You would probably be better served spending the points on another war walker or to bump up your seer council. As for the shining spears, I'm not convinced that they are a good unit, but I also haven't put them to much use either.

So, this is how its going to play out.

Hey lets set up and get this game going.

you ready to start, ya


Loud Voice in the background...

15 mins



Unless they give us a bit more time.

Phoenix wrote:

What Chimera_Calvin says here is both very true and very wrong all at the same time. The advice about makeing sure you have multiple units that can fulfill various roles in your army is good advice. You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket as they say. Figure out what it is you need to do on the field and make sure you have a couple of different units that can do it. With that said, I don't think that your wraithlord, jetbikes, and rangers need rethinking or at least not removing. The guardians are a bit of a different story though. In either case, ask yourself the following questions for each unit: What is is this unit for? What is it good at? What is it bad at? Do I have another unit to counter its weakness? Do I have other units that fill the same role? Do I have a lot of other units that fill the same role? Could the points be better spent elsewhere?

In general I think that if you are going to run a seer council, you probably should run it as 5-6 guys at least to give them some weight. If you have to drop the bikes to do it, so be it. The other option would be to have them always with the shining spears so they end up working like one large squad (and you can use the seers to give cover saves to the spears). I think the guardian squad is a waste. You have scouts to hold back field objectives and dire avengers to try and get forward objectives so the guardians are just not doing much. You would probably be better served spending the points on another war walker or to bump up your seer council. As for the shining spears, I'm not convinced that they are a good unit, but I also haven't put them to much use either.

You Both make some very good points about this list, and after playing a game against my brother and his black templars i defently learned a few things. The whole idea behind this list is small hammer and anvils running around the board hammering different sections of the opponnets army. The main anvil is the seer council on jetbikes. I defently need to up there numbers for survivability. I learned this is the game today. Even though my small squad held off helbreck and his tooled up command squad for the whole game, they did get wiped out. Also the guardians where usless and i will be dropping them. I just wanted to take them because they where painted rather well. Also i decided to drop one squad of dire avengers and replace them with scorpions. This gives me a good counter assault unit who can come in on board edge and pop tanks in the back field before unloading and charging whats left.

Also as far as the spears go. When you have a big seer council i usually just run them up to the toughest thing in the opposing army and either assault it or let it assault me. With there high servivability the autarch and spears come in and smash the unit and then jump away 3d6. The spears alone are not that strong with only 2 attacks a piece on the charge. And with 4s to hit they dont kill much. But the Autarch has 6 attacks on the charge that hit on 3's. The spears are simply a delivery package for the autarch, and give him the ability to run away and charge again. With the seer coucil holding up whats left so the spears can charge again next turn if there is anything left. I took the warlock off the bike squad and put him in too the seer council, Also i cut enough points to add another warlock.

I still kept the bike squad though for tactical reasons. They are perfect to keep in reserve and just rush out 24 inches at the end of the game to claim that one empty objective. I like a warlock with embolden to keep them around but its not totally necessary.

What do you guys think, should i take a warlock off the seer council to add to the bike squad or keep the seer council strong?

With this in mind here is the revised list:

HQ

130
Autarch
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters

160
Farseer
Jetbike, Spirit Stone, Doom, Fortune

245
5 Warlocks
Jetbikes, Enhance, Embolden

ELITES

150
8 Howling Banshees
Exarch, Mirror Swords, Acrobat

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance

92
5 Fire Dragons
Exarch

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance

181
9 Striking Scorpions
Exarch, shadow stalker

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone, TL Bright Lance

TROOPS

140
9 Dire Avengers
Exarch, 2x Shurikens, Bladestorm

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone, TL Missle Launcher, Shuriken Cannon

76
3 Jetbikes
Shuriken Cannon

120
5 pathfinders

FAST ATTACK

187
4 Shining Spears
Exarch, Both Exarch Powers

HEAVY SUPPORT

130
2 War Walkers
Missle Launchers, Scatter Laser

140
Wraith Lord
Wraith Sword, Bright Lance

182
4 Dark Reapers
Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot


ALL comments and critics are welcome and all advice is apreciated. Thanks

Max out the seer council, give it a try. See what you really need after you try it.

Still, its a bit of everything out of the book. It simply looks bad.

Max out the seer council and throw them at vehicles. Remember that they carry lascannons with multiple attacks when they are going against armor. And now since you always resolve your attacks against the rear armor of a vehicle, that S9 witchblade attack is looking a lot better since most vehicles have rear armor 10.

Thanks for the advice guys. Wuestenfux you do make some good points that i have one of everything. So here is the idea for toughening up this list.

It starts with the heavies. Drop the reapers and wraith lord for 2 Fire Prisms. This gives me the penetrating value of the wraithlord and the template power of the dark reapers. I can use the war walkers to screen one of the prisms to give it a cover save. The other fire prism stays out of sight of the enemy to link.

Also i am going to drop the Scorpions in favor of a tricked out 7 man harli squad with all the toys. With the points I save i can add 2 more jetbikes to the seer council too, as well as one to the bike squad.

So here is revised list:
HQ

130
Autarch
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters

160
Farseer
Jetbike, Spirit Stone, Doom, Fortune

335
7 Warlocks
Jetbikes, Enhance, Embolden

ELITES

166
9 Howling Banshees
Exarch, Mirror Swords, Acrobat

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance

92
5 Fire Dragons
Exarch, Fire Pike

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance

206
7 Harlequins
kisses, seer, troupe master

TROOPS

140
9 Dire Avengers
Exarch, 2x Shurikens, Bladestorm

140
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone, TL Missle Launcher, Shuriken Cannon

116
3 Jetbikes
Warlock Embolden

120
5 pathfinders

FAST ATTACK

187
4 Shining Spears
Exarch, Both Exarch Powers

HEAVY SUPPORT

120
2 War Walkers
Scatter Laser x2

150
Fire Prism
Holo Field

150
Fire Prism
Holo Field

Looks much better. Do you play only-troops-scoring missions?