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Just a quick question that came up in a game last night. I had a daemon prince with both Pavane and Breath - Monstrous creatures can shoot twice, so I shot twice and an issue came up with timing - can I pavane a unit and then flame it or do both hit simultaneously allowing the flamer on the original formation and then move them?

Thanks!

In general, all shooting happens at the same time so you could hit with pavane, register your flame attacks, then move the unit.

I'm inclined to agree with Stelek, but it definitely seems like a good question to have included on a Chaos Demon FAQ.

I agree with Stelek too. You would not be able, IMO, to pavane a unit into range and then template it for that reason.

biztheclown wrote:You would not be able, IMO, to pavane a unit into range and then template it for that reason.

Why not?

Cadian16th wrote:

biztheclown wrote:You would not be able, IMO, to pavane a unit into range and then template it for that reason.

Why not?

As was stated above, all of a unit's shooting is resolved using the steps for shooting.

So while we can't know for sure what 'step' the lash actually moves the unit, most reasonable people would probably agree it occurs after the 'to hit' step which is when template weapons determine who is hit in the target unit.

Therefore, by the time the unit is moved, the template has already been placed and any models underneath have already been established.


But it most certainly is not a black-and-white case, which is why it should be FAQ'd.

I don't think it should be limited.
Even though all shooting is meant to be simultaneous within a unit, that doesn't necessarily mean the individual has to conform to that.

Using both spells to their maximum efficiency could simply be said to represent pulling them in and spraying them down as they are dragged into range.

Plus, they have to be done individually. You roll your psychic spells one at a time, not all at the same time.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't think it should be limited.
Even though all shooting is meant to be simultaneous within a unit, that doesn't necessarily mean the individual has to conform to that.

Yes they do. A unit follows the steps for shooting and once it is done the unit is finished shooting for the turn. It doesn't matter if the unit is firing one weapon or a hundred or can fire at one unit or a hundred.

Once you've finished 'rolling to hit' that unit isn't rolling any more 'to hit' rolls that phase. Once a unit finishes rolling 'to wound' it is done for the phase, etc, etc, etc.

Using both spells to their maximum efficiency could simply be said to represent pulling them in and spraying them down as they are dragged into range.

Plus, they have to be done individually. You roll your psychic spells one at a time, not all at the same time.

Eric

First, there are no psychic powers in the Chaos Daemon codex, only ranged shooting attacks. Second, even if they were psychic shooting attacks there's no reason you wouldn't make both psychic checks before beginning the normal steps for shooting.

yakface wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
Using both spells to their maximum efficiency could simply be said to represent pulling them in and spraying them down as they are dragged into range.

Plus, they have to be done individually. You roll your psychic spells one at a time, not all at the same time.

Eric

First, there are no psychic powers in the Chaos Daemon codex, only ranged shooting attacks. Second, even if they were psychic shooting attacks there's no reason you wouldn't make both psychic checks before beginning the normal steps for shooting.

Cadian16th wrote:
So if you had a CSM Sorcerer or DP with Lash and WoC, would it change how you could do things?

The only thing that is up-in-the-air with that situation is that we don't know for sure whether Lash is considered a "psychic shooting attack" or not because GW didn't include that information in the CSM FAQ yet for some reason (even though they did in almost all the other FAQs).

But if you were assuming that the Lash is a psychic shooting attack then the answer would be exactly the same as above.

It's moot though since a Chaos Sorcerer or DP with MoS can only take one power.

Yeah, for what it is worth, we played it as suggested above resolving the template and then moving the unit. The closest we could find was under the templates section since it seems to imply that they are handled first (at work don't have exact language).

Thanks!

whitedragon wrote:It's moot though since a Chaos Sorcerer or DP with MoS can only take one power.

So what do familiars do again? I forgot...

I hope they don't say Lash is a shooting attack, since that kills alot of it's ability straight away.