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Only lost 2 games out of 12 with this list in 5th. Tell me what you you think.

This is my list.

HQ:
Belial 130

Troops:
Terminator Squad 250
3 LC, 1 Chainfist, 1 TH, 1 Heavy Flamer, Chapter Banner

Terminator Squad 245
1 Assault Cannon, 4 Storm Bolters, 1 Power Sword, 4 PF

Terminator Squad 245
1 Assault Cannon, 4 Storm Bolters, 1 Power Sword, 4 PF

Terminator Squad 235
1 Cyclone Missle Launcher, 4 Storm Bolters, 1 Power Sword, 4 PF

Terminator Squad 235
1 Cyclone Missle Launcher, 4 Storm Bolters, 1 Power Sword, 4 PF

Heavy:
Land Raider Crusader 250

Vindicator 130
Dozer Blade

Vindicator 130
Dozer Blade

Total 1850

So far has been a really good list.

Just wondering, what's the general tactic with this list? Looks solid.

Nothing wrong with it, besides relying on terminators.

How do you kill vehicle armies, besides in CC? Have you faced any?

Ughh, this really pisses me off.

What you have is a Dark Angels list that is Terminator heavy.

It is NOT a Deathwing list.

(*Edited because of European keyboard and the z & y being in different places)

Oh, and what is with the flamer in the first squad? Does it Deep Strike? Get carried in the Radier?

And yeah, the list does look solid. The fact you only have one LR is offset by the two other tanks that need to be dealt with.

@Lurker - Times are changing friend. And the old solo Deathwing army is getting left behind. You can complain about it not being Deathwingy enough because it uses models other than Terminators, Dreads, and LRs, but that list was barely competitive when we could take 2 Assault Cannons per squad and hasn't been competitive since. (Heh, your sig makes my point nicely.) If you want to adhere to fluff, that's fine, but there's a new generation of DW players who are coming into this army with the ability to bring other forces to bear. Just because we did it this way in our day doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't now.

@corwindal5 - My only comment on the army would be to replace one Stormbolter/Powerfist model in your Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher squads with a Twin LC model. That way, you've got just a little bit more punch in HtH and Deathwing is the only loyalist army you can do that with. But yeah, 5 Terminator squads is pretty solid.

Thanks guys. This list list is pretty direct but tough as nails.
My basic tactic is I park the Vindicators in cover and use them to rain down some death on the enemy. This is very effective because it is much more difficult to bring down tanks know. The Land Raider Crusader carries the squad with Belial, the chapter banner, Lightning Claws and Heavy Flamer forward to put preasure on on an objective. This is really important part of the game now. You have to make the enemy use some of his assests to counter your moves. Armies that can take control of the battle field withen the 1st two turns are the most effective.

You have to think of it like Chess now.
In Chess the most strategic thing you can do is take the center of the board which consists of 16 squares. When you have control of the center your opponent is now on the defensive. With the new rule set you must always keep your opponent on the defensive. Otherwise you are reacting to his moves instead of him alway reacting to your moves.



As far as tanks go I don't have a problem bringing down any tanks besides the Eldar Falcons and Tau Tanks. Those Halo fields are touqh even if I do penatrate them and the Tau tanks buy a piece of wargaer and they always have a 4+ save. For the most part I ignore them and just kill all there troops so that the only thing they can do is contest an objective.
However that railgun sure does pack some punch.

@Lurker: I did try some pure Deathwing and they just were not as effective as a mixed force. My old list just had 5 Deathwing Terminator Squad and 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Missle Launchers. The armour 12 was just to easy to pop even with them being venerable.

corwindal5 wrote:The Land Raider Crusader carries the squad with Belial, the chapter banner, Lightning Claws and Heavy Flamer forward to put preasure on on an objective. This is really important part of the game now. You have to make the enemy use some of his assests to counter your moves. Armies that can take control of the battle field withen the 1st two turns are the most effective.

Yep, that's pretty much the exact configuration that I used to use with my Deathwing command squad in 3rd and early 4th. It's a solid unit.

Drop something, anything, and take the apothicary. He is SOOO worth it.
I played a tournament with deathwing and did fairly well.
Not sure what I would have done had I run into orcs though.
My list
Belial
venerable dread W/extra armor
venerable dread W/extra armor
venerable dread W/extra armor
(one is killable, three advancing in a small space is really hard to stop)
5 termies, apoth, banner, cyclone missile
5 termies, cyclone
5 termies, cyclone
land raider
pred W/ twin las, hb

@Death By Monkeys:

The only reason I would be opposed to the Twin Lightning Claws on the DW Sergeants is because of the slight improvement in firepower. Having those extra shots at least a couple of times before the opponent gets to you is worth it, IMHO.

@OP
I really don't see the Cyclones as being worth it in place of the Assault Cannon, despite the AC's loss of power and increase in cost. Of course, that statement comes from someone who has had great success with Venerable Dreadnoughts using the AC/ML combination.

Having only one Assault unit would not sit well with me -- after you've disgorged your cargo and charged the enemy, what happens when you win the assault (because you will) and are left in the open, assuming the likely scenario where all those attacks wipes our your opponent on the charge?

Maybe it's just my way of thinking, but I really don't see DW as being an army that takes the fight to your opponent. Given their low numbers, poor suvivability (due to the low model-count), and difficulty fielding decent amounts of anti-tank without taking vehicles, I cannot imagine using them as an offensive force. Sure, taking charge of the battlefield is a good thing, but I don't think you necessarily have to close distance with your opponent and charge him, especially with such a low model-count army.

Meh, just my way of thinking, I guess. I like your list, and if it works, then by all means, more power to you.

CK

Just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about for my list:

Belial
Interrogator Chaplain w/ Terminator Armor, Combi-Meltagun

Dreadnought w/ Venerable, Missile Launcher
Dreadnought w/ Venerable, Missile Launcher

Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Apothecary, LCP
Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon, LCP
Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon
Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon
Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon

When I have enough money, I'll be purchasing a third Dreadnought - at the moment, I find the Chaplain to be surprisingly good at complementing this list. Each commander goes in one of the squads with the Lightning Claw Sergeants. They are the ones that advance on a position if necessary -- they always go after the same target. Never divide forces with Deathwing, I've learned. The other 3 squads move with or slightly behind them. The Dreadnoughts are usually close by, and are always together.

Deathwing for me has proven to be a very brittle army. If you use them right, they can chew up and rip though an opponent. If you falter, make a mistake, or otherwise have a bad round of rolls, the tides can quickly turn and leave you high and dry with a bunch of expensive units that really can't do much -- without united purpose, of course. Seven Assault Cannons don't hurt either.

CK

The one thing I found my army to be lacking is psysic defence
I plan to include this with the o so helpful grandmaster. The grandmaster will probably also include the power holocaust to help deal with orc hoards that do make it into combat (8 or so kills at init 2 cant hurt against a fearless unit.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:@Death By Monkeys:

The only reason I would be opposed to the Twin Lightning Claws on the DW Sergeants is because of the slight improvement in firepower. Having those extra shots at least a couple of times before the opponent gets to you is worth it, IMHO.

I generally agree with you on this point. The Terminators are better in ranged than HtH and generally need as much firepower as they can get. At the same time, those extra TLCs do give some extra oomph to the HtH fight. IMHO, I think it's a 6-of-one/half-dozen of the other situation. I don't think either configuration is substantially better or worse than the other. One will be a little better against one army, while the other will be better against another. But I think in general, it's just a minor tweak.

I think you will have great vulnerability to Lash/Oblit Chaos lists - that will bunch you up and then Plasma Cannon you to death.

But....

It's a fun list - one you can win with (except against me )

I think you need to almost be passive/agressive with it, depending upon your matchup....

I'm glad it works for you, it looks like it could be very potent in the right hands. My big concern is as Aldonis pointed out dual lash lists. These guys can make a squad go bye-bye in a single round of shooting.

Yes but a good thing about the Dual Lash list is if they focus on my terminators for most of the game it gives time for my 2 Vindicators and Land Raider Crusader to do there damage. You cannot ignore those tanks or they will do some serious damage to your army. I don't know I will have to see how I match up to them.

Well, if they kill your termies, then you can't win. You're gonna have a hard time tabling your opponent if you've only got the Vindicators and the LRC. =\

I just proxied this list vs my brother's Deathguard running 6 oblits, and wow is it great. He made a slight mistake focusing on trying to kill the vindis instead of shooting plasma cannons at my terminators, but hey that is the choice you have to make. I ran a unit less of terminators, 4 cyclones instead of ACs, and added an interrogator chaplain to go with the CC unit in the LRC (this was at 1850). Everything did fantastic. The CC unit is incredible when you add the +1 attack from the standard, hit re-rolls from the chaplain, and wound re-rolls from the LC's.

Good game last night CD....

A few vulnerabilities exposed. Mech Eldar (and I imagine Mech Tau) are a tough nut. Like the tactic of a "flank Pinscher" attack we discussed - you need to try that.

I think taking a defensive stance with this army is going to be the kiss of death for you against anything with long range firepower - especially mobile firepower.

i run a list similar to thatat 1500 but it involves 2 landraiders, 10 terminators,belial, 2 dreads all with extra armor and venerable, if i field the CC squad one dread is replaced with an intero chaplin, TLC+standard+Chaplin = bare min of 30 attacks that ignore normal saves, reroll wounds misses on the charge from an LRC, most squads die just from 1 assault.
Belial+Chap+5 man TLC term squad = GG to Anything in CC.

i've taken to no fielding the CC squad, since most of the players in my area consider it down right cheating due to 1st turn deep strike+ new run rules. run for cover if the scatter dice hates you if not, well run for the closes squad or cover from fire, you will just melt most things that squad comes into H2H with. also you may want to include a thunder hammer or 2 for killing vehicles or walkers.

happy huntin my deathwing battle brother.

btw i've noticed that deathwing benefit, from ord weapon deployment Alot so your double vindi list is really nice, i thought about doing something similar with 2 whirlwinds with the ignore cover saves missles to help pin down the enemy while my deathwing advance up the field.

here's the list i posted about before incase your curious
1500pts
HQ
---------
Belial 130pts

Troops
-----------
Deathwing Terminator Squad 245pts
w/ AC
1x TH+SS
2x SB+PF
1x SB+PW
1x AC

Deathwing Terminator Squad 245pts
w/ AC
1x TH+SS
2x SB+PF
1x SB+PW
1x AC

Elites
---------
Dreadnaught w/ Twin-linked Autocannon 160pts
w/ Venerable
w/ Extra Armor
w/ Heavy Flamer
w/ CCW

Dreadnaught W/ Twin-linked Lascannon 180pts
w/ Venerable
w/ Extra Armor
w/ Heavy flamer
w/CCW

Heavy Support
--------------------------------
Land Raider Crusader 265pts
w/ Extra armor

Land Raider 265pts
w/ Extra armor

or swap 1 dread for intero chaplin+ standard bearer, and change one squad of terminators to a CC version with TLC and cyclone.

and if i went to 1850, i could still field a whirlwind or vindicator and another dread, or maybe drop pods for the dreads. who knows. most players play 1500pt games in my area, so i don't get the chance to go above it most of the time.

let me know what you think.

There's a thought/idea to try out CD....

Go a little lighter on troops - take 4 squads maybe...

The extra points should buy you 1 maybe 2 Dreads for more fire support.....