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can tyranids that choose scuttlers and choose to outflank. that also have without number perform outflank maneuvars when they get wiped out and come on the board a second time?

Without Out Numbers does not put the unit in reserves and the rules for WON state they come on from your table edge (IIRC or something similar -- definitely not the same edge you deployed from or similar).

Therefore outflank cannot be used when the unit is recycled.

That's what i thought i just wanted to be 100% sure

winterman wrote:Without Out Numbers does not put the unit in reserves and the rules for WON state they come on from your table edge (IIRC or something similar -- definitely not the same edge you deployed from or similar).

Therefore outflank cannot be used when the unit is recycled.

So I don't see much of this in the rules.

Not the 5E rules, anyway.

Scuttlers gives you scouts. To me, that means not only can you deploy from your board edge (as outlined in the Tyranid book) but you can also come in from a random board edge (as allowed by the Scouts rule).

What do others think?

Pg.40 Tyranid Codex - Without Number... Any brood Without Number that is removed form play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the next Tyranid turn. It moves onto the board from the Tyranid player's board edge and has exactly the same profile and armaments as its predecessor. Victory Points are scored as usual for the brood and its replacements as if they were entirely separate broods.

If you read the bold I would say that they should be able to use the scout rules if need be. However the Underlined section states they come on from the Nids board edge. So Its a close one. But I would say that since the Codex technically overrules the BRB unless its a USR then they should have to come in from the board edge.

Thought that Codex overruled USRs as well, such as Skulltaker rending on a 4+.

Question though as long as we're talking about without number. There's mention in the BSR that you automatically win if you manage to completely wipe out your opponent. Now, does without number mean that the nid player with the minimum number of spinefists that take WoN aren't going to be subject to that, or is it good enough if you manage to remove all the original squads?

I do believe that you would have to kill EVERYTHING on the board. Including any new WoN squads that have walked on. As they count as a new squad and give Killpoints every time they come back.

The 'Wipeout!' rule in the rulebook is:

"Regardless of the victory conditions, if at the end of any standard mission your enemy has no units left on the table, you win the game!"


So there's your answer regarding without number. It is only at the end of the game and only if the opponent has no models on the table. So you'll have to keep killing the without number units until the end of the game.


As for whether or not WON units with scuttlers can recycle using 'outflank', the answer is NO.

The rules for outflanking say (p 94):

"During deployment, players may declare that units with the 'scout' or 'infiltrate' rules are attempting to outflank the enemy. . .When the outflanking unit arrives from reserve the controlling player rolls a dice. . ."


So only during deployment can a player declare that a unit is arriving via outflank.


The Without Number rule (quoted in a post above) says absolutely nothing about the unit arriving from reserve. It is a special rule that allows the unit to move back on from the Tyranid Player's board edge, full stop.

There is absolutely no justification for trying to apply outflanking onto the 'Without Number' rule.

The part you would be looking for is..

Pg.40 Tyranid Codex - Without Number... Any brood Without Number that is removed form play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the next Tyranid turn. It moves onto the board from the Tyranid player's board edge and has exactly the same profile and armaments as its predecessor. Victory Points are scored as usual for the brood and its replacements as if they were entirely separate broods.

If codex's over rule the BRB then they would move onto the board from the Tyranid player's board edge as it says. Thus taking Scuttlers and WoN would be a point sink unless you REALLY needed them to either Scout or Outflank the first time.

The without numbers special rules clearly state that the new brood moves onto the table from the nid players edge.

The scuttler rule simply allows the unit to outflank the first time it comes into play.

In short, its not worth giving scuttler units without numbers as a rule