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So I've abandoned that War Walker idea...although I never actually tried it out, oh well.

Ehh, I'm low on troops with this one, but against other shooty armies my troops die way too fast when on foot.

-HQ---Avatar---155
-HQ---Farseer---148
Singing Spear, Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding

-Troop---Dire Avengers x10---177
Exarch, PW/SS, Bladestorm, Defend
-Dire Avenger Wave Serpent Transport---130
Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Eldar Missile Launcher

-Troop---Dire Avengers x10---152
Exarch, Dual Shuri-Cats, Bladestorm
-Dire Avenger Wave Serpent Transport---130
Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Eldar Missile Launcher

-Elite---Striking Scorpions x10---212
Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Stalker, Shadowstrike

-Elite---Fire Dragons x6---96

-Heavy---Falcon---190
Bright Lance, Holo-Fields, Spirit Stones

-Heavy---Fire Prism---150
Holo-Fields

-Heavy---Fire Prism---150
Holo-Fields

-Fast---Vyper---60
Shuriken Cannon Mount, Shuriken Cannon

total=1750 points

So, plan is, Farseer Fortunes Avatar while he is inside the Wave Serpent with the PW/SS Defend Avenger squad, other squad moves with them too, they pop out, bladestorm etc.
Scorps flank, Fire Dragons ---> Falcon, Vyper runs around, Prisms blow stuff up.

I took the cannon mounts on the Serpents in case they need to hunt some infantry...I know I'm low on troops but I plan on keeping these in the serpents for at least 3 turns, I only need to capture one objective as long as I contest the rest with my vehicles, so hopefully the squad with defend will do so..my footslog units have just been blown to bits too often. =/

Why an Avatar? He's a lonely guy. All other elements of your army are fast.

Three turns? Shooty armies will be a problem...

Your flanking with one squad of scorps on foot? Why are these guys not in a wave serpent?

Darrian, do you find that scorpions should have a serpent? I'm thinking a few squads of them outflanking would be pretty handy, and alot of fun.

Lonely_Penguin wrote:So I've abandoned that War Walker idea...although I never actually tried it out, oh well.

Why don't you, if you have them anyway? Or at least proxy them for half a dozen games, see how you like them.

Honestly I've met quite a few players that run a unit of 3, and love them.

Then they play me, and the love affair is interrupted. lol

You should at least give them a try.

Lonely_Penguin wrote:
-HQ---Avatar---155
-HQ---Farseer---148
Singing Spear, Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding

Farseer in this config is worthless if he's there to support the Avatar.

Who is in a mech Army. Why?

Lonely_Penguin wrote:
-Troop---Dire Avengers x10---177
Exarch, PW/SS, Bladestorm, Defend
-Dire Avenger Wave Serpent Transport---130
Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Eldar Missile Launcher

Serpents need Spirit Stones so they can drop off the DA where they want to.

Drop that PW/SS/Defend crap. It's worthless.

-Troop---Dire Avengers x10---152
Exarch, Dual Shuri-Cats, Bladestorm
-Dire Avenger Wave Serpent Transport---130
Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Eldar Missile Launcher

@Whitedragon, If you are going to outflank with your scorps you need to have speed for that unit because you do not know which side you are coming in on. Also, you have to let your opponent know that you are outflanking so he will react to your move. a transport lets you get inot position to drop off you scorps the following turn.

What 5 meltaguns will do to a tank, 6 does not do better.

Either bring 5, or an Exarch with crack shot and dragons breath so you can also hurt hordes.

You don't need 6 guys.

So, a few things to consider here. First off I've never been fond of equiping my dragons to be able to deal with hordes. It just goes against my specialist nature. That being said, it can be effective, I'm just predisposed against it due to role dilution. *shrug*

That aside, lets look at the difference a single dragon makes. I'll assume you are sending the dragons after AV 12+ vehicles here and look at the average number of kills (vehicle destroyed / explodes).

5 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 12 => .93 kills
5 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 => .80 kills
5 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 => .65 kills

6 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 12 => 1.1 kills
6 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 => .96 kills
6 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 => .78 kills

So you can see, there isn't much to be gained by adding in the extra dragon here. The possible exception here being when going after land raiders. However lets look at what happens when you include cover.

5 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 12 in 4+ cover=> .46 kills
5 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 in 4+ cover=> .40 kills
5 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 in 4+ cover=> .32 kills

6 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 12 in 4+ cover=> .55 kills
6 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 in 4+ cover=> .48 kills
6 dragons at 6" or less shooting at AV 13 in 4+ cover=> .38 kills

While the gains are still a bit marginal, your over all kill expectation is low enough that I think the extra dragon is worth including. The other option (which point wise works out in your favor against targets in cover) is to take an exarch with fusion gun and crack shot. The added BS and ability to ignore cover saves means that against targets in cover, he gets more kills per point spent than regular dragons do. Out of cover though, the regular dragons are a bit more efficient.

Couple things:

1) Land Raiders don't get cover unless you are playing with lego terrain (or they popped smoke).

2) You can bring Fire Dragons to hunt vehicles only, and when you face a horde have 5 useless guys who kill 3 or 4 of them before getting overrun. Or you can tank shock them into 'fry me' formation, and rip the guys out of a horde unit. I much prefer the latter.

First off, this is not supposed to be a mech list, I can't live without Prisms, and the other vehicles are mainly just for transporting...even still, what's wrong with the Avatar? He is a beast. Everytime I play a game without him I think, bah...if I had the Avatar out it'd be a completely different game, he is being fortuned from the safety of a wave serpent, and he is just there to absorb fire, not to mention if he even gets in CC with one squad, he pretty much makes his points back. It doesn't take long to get in range anymore...he can run and he gets 3 dice for terrain.

He has two avenger squads backing him up in wave serpents and if you shoot those...well then you have 2 prisms in your face, same turn fire dragons kill a tank. and the falcon usually only has to move 6" after turbo-boosting the first turn, and the falcon can take out another tank same turn 2. So can the serpents if needed...I don't like bright lances on the serpents...15 extra points, no blast alternate, only makes a diff on 13+ armor which will either be handled by the fire dragons, falcon, or linked prisms..the serpents can focus on shooting down other transports where the shuriken cannon too can help against A10, I'll only need to move more than 6" probably just the first turn anyway.

The scorps have been awesome for me, even if you aren't totally on the side, the scorps can move 6", run D6, and assault 6" the turn they come in...how often do you not have a unit within 18" from the side edge? They can beat up a heavy weapon team, and then pretty much anything else next turn..maybe I'm misjudging them though since I have only played against Tau lately..

[

Stelek wrote:1) Land Raiders don't get cover unless you are playing with lego terrain (or they popped smoke).

Or they are sitting with 51% of their relevent facing (or possibly the whole tank) in a piece of area terrain (forest).

2) You can bring Fire Dragons to hunt vehicles only, and when you face a horde have 5 useless guys who kill 3 or 4 of them before getting overrun. Or you can tank shock them into 'fry me' formation, and rip the guys out of a horde unit. I much prefer the latter.

While that's certainly a viable tactic, how often do you find that you need to use it? Any time you fire at a tank, you waste the exarch’s fire power and the same goes for the rest of the squad if you flame a horde. I guess you meta game must differ from mine (and I don’t really do tournaments so that might explain it) but its extremely rare for me to face an army that doesn’t have tanks, or monstrous creatures, or guys in 2+ armor, or attack bikes, or obliterators, or some kind of high toughness / armor value target for my dragons to go after. So I almost never find them to be useless. But I suppose I could ask you if that’s a common thing for you? Do you really find that the amount of points wasted either on the dragons themselves or on the exarch (depending on the firing situation) is less than the points you would waste on the dragons alone across many games?

Now, if you want to flame things to death (and really, who doesn’t?) wouldn’t a shake n’ bake squad of storm guardians in a serpent be a better choice. They are tougher against just about everything other than ap 5 shooting (assuming no cover) and they do more damage since they have 2 flamers. All that and they cost just about the same as the dragon squad does.

Scorps cannot assault the turn in, they do not have fleet.

Yeh, I messed up my sentance, you can move 6" assault 6", or run into cover or something if there's nothing within 6"

That's ok, everyone makes booboos. I could put it in red text and poke fun at you, but I won't.

You can get into cover, but plasma weapons don't kill scorpions. Bolters do.

Darrian13 wrote:@Whitedragon, If you are going to outflank with your scorps you need to have speed for that unit because you do not know which side you are coming in on. Also, you have to let your opponent know that you are outflanking so he will react to your move. a transport lets you get inot position to drop off you scorps the following turn.

Well, with a transport, they are still hanging out a turn in limbo waiting to assault. They can run on the board for outflanking, and be in roughly the same spot. And I'm thinking 3 full squads of scorpions led by Karandaras as a fun list.